99% ssf, only bounties in public 4-man. Everything has its limits
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This is what I do too. For me, bounties the benefits are too big to pass up, doing ~25% of the total work to get the same benefit.
I stopped around 2k mats on season though since I couldn’t handle much more, and I don’t have enough FSouls to use that many anyway hah.
Seeing all these new PR clears posted is definitely making me motivated to try to improve on my own modest GR120 best! I’ve never dedicated any time to serious pushing though, I typically play all maps, and just increment up the tier list as I go (Don’t play meta so don’t have higher difficulties unlocked), and I know my game play has lots of improvements wrt pulls and pylon management etc.
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In pubs it’s so rarely 25% though. When I do fewer than 8 bounties I’m usually happy.
EU players of the forum, if you also do pub bounties let me know and we can create a bounty group
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All players and classes being equal with no bots this would be the case. Even as fast as I am with my season barb 75% of GOD dhs no matter what can beat me. Only ones that can’t are bots or AFK. If I have a full group of players I know sub 15 minutes is guaranteed and close to 10 minutes is possible for a full clear. So 3x the rate would be a minimum.
Also I decided to push 140 last night with crimson. Went threw 120 keys and I definitely like it but it is still ruff. I can pull so much easier but when I get a massive pack I just can’t stay up. It pretty much comes down to fishing for swarms/god comp/rat callers/small spiders. Even fatty explosions were a problem if i had too many at once. On the plus side I didn’t freeze once so maybe Blizz fixed there s&*t.
You could try trading out Brawler / Berserker for Relentless or NoS. Costs you about 7.5% damage.
But: being dead also costs you damage!
Good luck.
That was a thought. I think I am still gonna give core the play time for now. When mantle gets its full power back I will get my 140 done. Then by next era end give crimson another test.
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Interesting, as I’ve noticed most GoD DH can’t keep up with my season barb in bounties, but maybe it’s just mostly bots or noobs in the pub games I’ve run. I made note of it since GoD is so good and my season barb is so low paragon and crap geared.
I agree the 25% thing may not always hold true and sometimes its frustrating if you end up carrying the game, but in average its still so much better than solo!
Hi all, this is my first time posting here. First I want to extend my gratitude to all those who share their expert insight in how to construct this build and push it to its limits. The OP itself is so thorough, and all all the discussion about the intricacies following the OP is a great source to help understand all the finer points.
Like many others it seems, it took me a while to finally commit to using the spear. It takes practice obviously, and you have to give up the simple care-free spin-to-win approach, but another reason I held out is I didn’t really understand the utmost importance of proactively grouping to maximize density. I would just accept the groups the maps gave me and use ground stomp from there. I was using Falter instead of spear for its modest damage boost, though of course this stole orotz procs, but I also had high cdr to make this manageable. I also experimented with having FC in the build - it’s really nice to be able to glide around like that.
Regarding density and area damage, I have this question stemming from something Free said in the discussion with DieHarder back in September:
Is 99% a bit of hyperbole? What confuses me about that is why do you need Ambo’s in the build if the damage is coming from hard-cast rends? Might as well load up Furnace. I’m sure I’m forgetting something basic.
[edit] Obvious answer to my own question is that Ambo’s makes Rend deal its damage over 1 second, but still I wonder about other sources of damage, especially bloodbath, which I had come to understand was a major damage boost in density.
Related to this question and area damage from hard-casts in general, I cut my WW Rend teeth on the guide on Icy Veins. That guide doesn’t mention area damage and hard casts at all. I don’t know if it’s taboo to mention an alternate guide or anything like that, but in the world of people expert enough to author Diablo 3 Barb guides I imagine you guys know each other (maybe not). I don’t know have any idea or would care to comment even if you did, but I’m curious if area/hard-cast is crucial to top pushes why that guide doesn’t mention it.
Thanks again for all the great info in this thread. You guys are awesome.
Ambos applies rend and condenses all its damage into a 1 second bleed. If you add all the rend multipliers on lamentation and the set bonuses it is a huge amount of damage. Bloodbath just gives you an extra rend explosion everytime you kill something. Basically double damage. An ambos applied rend does not proc area damage so we are required to hardcast it to gain area benefit. Ambos will detonate hardcast rend though so hardcast are also on a one second time.
Thanks Chris. I think I’m just misunderstanding Free’s comment, or taking it too literally.
You’re taking it too literally.
Having said that, the majority of your total damage will be from area damage which can only be triggered by hard cast rends. What % of damage? It’s impossible to quantify given the complexity (hell, even our computers can’t handle it hence the AD lag) - if I had to take a wild guess, I would say 70%+ from area damage if you’re decently skilled and playing the build the right way.
Start with the basic stuff like proper cooldown for wrath then ultimately getting to 50% in order to drop boon passive. After that your spearing/stomp/fishing abilities and or patience will be the next thing to perfect. Do not sacrifice CDR for area in most cases unless you are at 50%. Also Harcast rends and spears will greatly help your cooldowns from zodiac procs. This is something that can be overlooked but is very important when boon passive is gone at 50% CDR. Once you start seeing drops with great rolls you can start to min/max area into the build and see the benefit. It takes along time to get proper rolls so just be patient.
Depends on how much sheet AD you’ve got and the density of the enemies.
The maximum density you’re likely to see on a regular basis is around 30 targets within a 10 yard radius. You can get this with some good mob types, like Horror/Mother or Lacuni Thrall. A few others, like Swarms or any time there are Maggot Brood around, can exceed this mark and probably get up to around 40 targets within 10 yards.
So, let’s look at 5, 10, 20, 30, and 40 targets. With 1 target, the effect of AD is obviously zero.
Let’s assume you’ve got the max (useful) amount of AD: 178%.
And, let’s assume your “base” damage to each target is 100.
With 5 targets, you are hitting each for 100 damage directly, and they then take an average of 100 * 0.2 * 1.78 * 4 = 142.4 damage. So 242.4 total damage, and 58.7% of your damage coming from AD.
With 10 targets, you are hitting each for 100 damage directly, and they then take an average of 100 * 0.2 * 1.78 * 9 = 320.4 damage. So 420.4 total damage, and 76.2% of your damage coming from AD.
With 20 targets, you are hitting each for 100 damage directly, and they then take an average of 100 * 0.2 * 1.78 * 19 = 676.4 damage. So 776.4 total damage, and 87.1% of your damage coming from AD.
With 30 targets, you are hitting each for 100 damage directly, and they then take an average of 100 * 0.2 * 1.78 * 29 = 1032.4 damage. So 1132.4 total damage, and 91.2% of your damage coming from AD.
And, with 40 targets, you are hitting each for 100 damage directly, and they then take an average of 100 * 0.2 * 1.78 * 39 = 1388.4 damage. So 1488.4 total damage, and 93.3% of your damage coming from AD.
So, the effect of AD is obviously pretty enormous. It doesn’t quite reach 99% in this example, even at insane levels of density, but you are not far off of 90% with just 20 targets, which is easy to find, especially if you are helping things along with Spear and Stomp.
On the other hand, what Free actually said is that “99% of your damage comes from those hard-casts on Physical cycles”.
If you imagine that you are basically hard-casting during 100% of your Physical cycle, and just spinning regularly the rest of the time, then your damage profile looks like:
Seconds 1 - 12: 1x damage * 12 seconds (@ 100 “base” damage), so “1200” damage total.
Then, Seconds 13-16 (Physical cycle), hard-casting with varying amounts of density…
5 enemies: 3x * 2.4x * 4 seconds, so 2880 damage, 4080 total (over all 16 seconds), 70.6% of damage during Physical cycle.
10 enemies: 3x * 4.2x * 4 seconds, so 5040 damage, 6240 total, 80.8% of damage during Physical cycle.
20 enemies: 3x * 7.8x * 4 seconds, so 9360 damage, 10560 total, 88.6% of damage during Physical cycle.
30 enemies: 3x * 11.3x * 4 seconds, so 13560 damage, 14760 total, 91.9% of damage during Physical cycle.
40 enemies: 3x * 14.9x * 4 seconds, so 17880 damage, 19080 total, 93.7% of damage during Physical cycle.
In reality, I think most good players are going to be hard-casting more frequently than just during their Physical cycle, which means the “hard-casts on Physical cycles” damage share is going to be a little lower than the figures here.
But, the basic point still stands: the lion’s share of your damage is going to come from the combination of AD + CoE.
Definitely not taboo to mention, but any guide that doesn’t mention AD or hard-casting in this build has some serious problems! As for why that is, I have no idea. The process over at IV is not really transparent. Here on the forum, we spend a ton of time talking shop, trying things out, testing, analyzing, etc. IV may just have one guy kind of phoning it in without getting into any sort of in-depth thought, testing, or analysis. I don’t know the folks over there, I’m not sure if anybody else around here does, either. Some streamers are like this, too (though others, like Wudijo, are among the most overall knowledgeable players around).
Bottom line: keep a critical mind when it comes to advice from any source- and that includes regulars here like me or Free or Chris. We’re all human, and screw things up from time to time.
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I hardcast the entire time unless I am pulling, stomping, or on the move. When you get up to those really high levels you need to squeeze every single bit of damage out to keep rampage up as much as possible. This is why small and low health mobs are what we like.
Some other smart folk have answered your question, but I want to add my two cents. 99% is a bit of hyperbole, but, the real damage comes from hard-casting in density on your Physical COE cycle. You’re getting the detonated (compressed) Rends + AD, which equals massive when you have sufficient density. And Chris is right: the only time you don’t hard-cast is when you’re moving to a new position, throwing out spears, or otherwise engaged in grouping density.
Clump up several screens of density, stomp them into an Oculus bubble, and hard-cast on your Physical cycle and you will explode mobs like no other build.
Against single-target RGs, you only need to hard-cast to increase Zodiac procs; otherwise, just spin to win and keep Wrath active.
Generally speaking, Icy Veins is not a good resource for Barbs; their guides often contain errors and misinformation, or fail to account for the game mechanics that underpin a build’s potential. They’re not bad to glance at in order to get started, and I can’t say whether or not their guides for other classes are worthwhile, but for Barbs, you’re better off avoiding them if you want accurate, in-depth guides.
Frankly, the Barb build guides on this forum are the best, period.
Wrong. You never sacrifice CHD and CHC since they function as multipliers to Rend’s damage. This is covered in the OP.
You get AD on weapons, shoulder, rings if you meet the above guideline, and gloves if you get a good pair.
Vitality and AD don’t compete for stat slots. You only take enough CDR to meet the build’s requirements.
That means nothing. The guide explains how to achieve max optimization in the build; you’re free to follow the guide or stray from it, and that’s entirely up to you. What you just said is the equivalent of: When it rains, water comes out of the sky.
It doesn’t matter how the build is played. If you want to deal the most damage possible, you use hard-casts in conjunction with lots of AD and COE.
Just a reminder, folks. DK here is one of you-know-who’s alts and is up to the usual trolling.
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Yep, I figured as much. In this case the damage proportions will track the first set of numbers, rather than the 2nd, CoE specific set.
LOL
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I note that he has started switching to his alts to troll so as not to put his beloved TL3 at risk on his main account with a trolling flag.
Long since reached the bottom of the barrel…and still digging.
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Ding 6k paragon when season rolls over.
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Nice work Chris!!! 
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He may add a season 22 section but there is no major changes.
Build #1 will use band of might and crimson. Put lamentation in the cube. Great build for low paragon and basically unlimited defense. This build will also have the option to drop istvans for and ambos/doom combo with furnace in cube as you will have plenty of defense with proper rolls.
Build #2 will use focus and restraint. BOM/zodiac/mantle/ambos. This is basically a more powerful core build.
My money is on build #1 as it will pretty much be invincible and they will be pulling entire maps very early in progression.
Edit: also something to add on build #1. Since crimson and BOM together you wont need to run
IP like a normal crimson build. You will be able to drop boon passive almost immediately for an extra little bit of dmage.
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