Am I doing something wrong or d3Planner is not considering the 300-400% damage from the undisputed champion belt? Trying to compare my normal one (464 str/400% frenzy) against a ancient one (617 str/380% frenzy/3.6% freeze) with potential 500+ str from caldesan.
Give me a D3 planner link to your current build and I can help you out.
Edit: nevermind, I found it.
The ancient belt will cost you 4% damage from a lower affix, but will gain you about 4.25% damage from added Str (assuming a 550 point augment). The value of the extra Str will go down as your paragon goes up, though.
Bottom line is that both belts are pretty good, and about equal.
this is it: _https://www.d3planner.com/856391775
Ooops. Just saw your reply! Thanks!
Cool, thanks, I just edited my reply, above.
Haha, just saw your edit, lol!
Hi Rage. In your reply you said that AS on AZ is not the same as having AS on OK. I can’t seem to find in the guide or any where as to the rationale for that. I have a 7% AS 10% CDR on AZ but can’t find an ancient OK with those stats. What is the rationale for having AS on OK instead of AZ? Also, I noticed in your videos that you have OK in your main hand. Does it matter also if the OK is in the main hand or the off hand? Appreciate your insights here. Thank you
Just chiming in here:
OK has base 1.3 and AZ has base 1.4 which is important for the breakpoints.
Hey NS,
First: doesn’t generally matter which hand OK is in. The only time it makes a difference is if you are using EF, and want to run the Weapons Master passive. In this case, you must have EF in your main hand.
As for speed: so, like I said in my last reply, a speed roll on a weapon only applies to that particular weapon, whereas a speed roll on armor (like gloves or a ring) speeds up all your attacks. If you could have a weapon with a +700% AS roll on it, you’d attack really fast with it, but with your other weapon, you wouldn’t attack any faster.
Another thing to note is that Frenzy has certain breakpoints. It takes a certain amount of additional attack speed to take you from one breakpoint to the next, and added attack speed that is less than this amount won’t actually speed up your attack at all.
The reason for this is that the game runs at 60 frames per second, and anything the game is going to animate has to happen on a particular frame. In any given second, there’s a “frame 48” and a “frame 49”, but no “frame 48.5”.
Ultimately, if you’ve got AS on 1 ring + gloves, then adding a 7% AS roll on OK takes you from a 9 frame Frenzy to an 8 frame Frenzy. But adding a 7% roll on AZ takes you from an 8 frame Frenzy to… an 8 frame Frenzy. To actually speed up your attack with the AZ, you’d need not only the 7% roll on that weapon, but another 7% roll on armor, which would cost you something valuable, like CDR, CHC, or CHD.
The reason for the differing rolls is that OK is a mighty weapon with a 1.3 aps base, whereas AZ is a sword with a 1.4 aps base. (As Crinkles has mentioned)
Hope that makes sense!
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For the RGK, why not use Sun Keeper as the second weapon? It is mentioned it was worse than other options for the regular build, but not the RGK. I would imagine that this would be BIS over Pig Sticker or Doombringer (which only increases dmg by max of 20%). Thoughts?
Also, if you had to rank the two (if I can only get one option at this time), would you prioritize the attack speed to get to the next breakpoint or the CDR to keep up WotB longer? I would have to choose between IAS and CDR on my weapon. Thanks.
Hey Dante,
Good question, I hadn’t considered that! So, here’s the +/- for Sun Keeper:
It adds about 4% damage over Doombringer via higher weapon damage, but costs you about 6.5% damage via lost speed.
It adds 30% elite damage, but costs you about 14.25% elemental damage.
So that’s something like: 100 * 1.04 * 0.935 * 1.3 * .8575 = 108.4 (i.e. 8.4% more damage than Doombringer). So, that does seem like it would be a pretty good combo! You do have to factor in a bit more lost damage due to slightly lower Stricken stacking, and for any RG with adds, the damage will drop by a larger amount than with Doombringer. Even so, it seems SK will be pretty comparable to those other options in terms of overall quality.
The best possible SK would have both CDR and AS, but that’s obviously not an option for you. For your particular case, I would take the CDR over the AS, since having Wrath up more often will raise your average AS as well as providing other benefits.
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Thanks for the reply. As to the second question, that was actually in relation to my Oathkeeper. I have a great ancient one with a good dmg range and a great affix (near max), but I am stuck with STR and VIT, so I can either go for IAS or CDR for my last stat. One will get me to the 8 framerate breakpoint for frenzy, while the other might get me in the desired CDR range. One of the earlier posts mentioned that having the IAS on Oathkeeper was more important than having it on your secondary weapon, which would not get you to the next breakpoint.
Kadala gave me gloves with str/ias/chc/chd tonight, so I rolled str to cdr to get quadfecta gloves! Sadly the CHD is a troll roll of 32 though, so not 100% sure it’s worth it over my str/49%*chd/10%chc/8%cdr current ones.
I’ll be curious to see the consensus on this one myself, since I’m in a similar boat. I have a servicable non ancient OK with cdr and ias, but could also steal my thornzy’s OK with STR/LPH/CDR, and the cdr could be rolled into ASI. I suspect that Rage’s answer will be the same, that the extra cdr gets you more WotB up time, which increases attack speed and damage.
In my case I’m not sure if the ancient damage is worth losing the attack speed, so I think I have some D3 planner simulations to run for both that and gloves!
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Either of those would be good, I personally would go with the CDR… literally: my OK has Str-Vit- and a reroll to CDR.
As for AS on OK vs secondary weapon: again, it’s just that OK has a 1.3 aps base, and a 7% roll there can often move you up a frame, but swords like AZ and Doom have a 1.4 base, and adding speed there usually doesn’t help you.
Axes, like Sankis, have a 1.3 base, same as mighty weapons, so an AS roll on these would generally be good.
Maces like EF or Sunkeeper have a 1.2 base, and AS here is alright: generally it moves you up a frame when WOTB is down, but at the same speed when Wrath is active as if you didn’t have that AS roll.
Generally, picking up that AS is really handy: going up from the 9/8 breakpoint to the 8/7 one adds at least 12% damage, which is more than you’ll generally get from that lost Str and 17% CHD, unless you are very low on paragon and augments.
Are either of those gloves ancient? Both? Neither?
For OK (and this is true of most weapons), the most important thing is really that it be ancient. This boosts the damage by about 25% over a non-ancient weapon. Second most important is a good legendary affix roll. A perfect roll here (200%) gives you 20% more damage than the worst roll (150%). Third most important is actually a good roll on your damage range, since a perfect roll here is about 15% more damage than the worst possible roll.
Only after that do you get to the other stats on the weapon, like AS, CDR, etc. Primals take care of the first three priorities all at once, so a primal with awful stats like RCR-Bleed %-elite dmg could very well be better than an ancient with AD-CDR-AS (the stats I recommend in the guide).
Best of all, of course, is a primal with AD-CDR-AS!
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Awesome response, thanks Rage!
Neither gloves are ancient. I am low paragon, 1260ish and don’t have much in the way of augments on that character yet. I am farming speed grs on my zodiac WW barb (which sort of snowballed into tweaking that build’s items instead and distracted me…) to get augment gems, I have a few 90s ready to go though! I got my cdr to the appropriate amount and it looks like I can get attack speed there as well with those gloves.
The ancient OK has 199 legendary damage with 1548 - 1925 damage roll (1797 - 2386 weapon damage) . It has str, LPH and enchanted cdr.
The non ancient is 1396 - 1879 weapon damage with 7 ias, LPH and 10%cdr (rerolled) with 197% legendary power damage.
I have an attack speed roll on cr ring and the quad gloves, so my non weapon attack speed is where it needs to be. Moving to the ancient with no attack speed might mean the attack speed on gloves no longer helps though?
Definitely gonna want the ancient OK. That’s a very solid weapon.
Without the AS on OK, you’ll have a 8.5/7.5 Frenzy.
If you drop one other AS roll on armor, you have 9/7.5.
And if you drop both AS rolls on armor,
you have 9.5/8.
I definitely would at least keep AS on the gloves. Keeping both (ring+gloves) still gets you a half frame (i.e. a full frame on one weapon).
Is your CR ancient? And is the AS on it rerollable? If so, you could trade AS for damage range. Otherwise, I’d just go ahead and stick with the AS on both items.
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https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/insidious-1502/hero/60628149
Non ancient CR, and I had to roll for chc, so can’t roll the 7% speed to something else.
So sounds like I should hang tight until more drops come my way! I wasn’t sure if I should go back to the str/chc/chd/cdr gloves to get back that 17% chd if the glove 6% asi isn’t as helpful without OK ias, so thanks for running the frames Calc for me!
Thanks for all the help! I will do some augments and try to see how far that and the ancient OK get me!
I’m really tempted to main a Frenzy barb next season if we truly emerge as a viable (if not the top) RG Killer!
Does anyone know if there’s a video for that GR138 Frenzy clear anywhere? Would love to see how this build plays at that level.
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I don’t think there is video. Up to 139 now, btw. Player is Jedizinid, you can hit youtube and see if you find anything!
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damn… you guys all rock. i can’t help feeling like i suck or that i have some crap gear choices. maybe i can get some tips from you.
i’ve only been able to clear 120GR so far. i’m at 1494 paragon atm, and have 18.9K str.
Sounds like nothing much will change next patch… Frenzy still “viable” for 140’ish, but Pallys are still the clear top tier RGK. Bummer
S20 GR 135, 136 down @ 4200 para(31k str), and 137 also seems possible with the current status. Still using Aughild setup and 3 x 7% AS rolls on gear. (Korean 7/6 frame)
- Rage, I watched your test video on Korean frame. It was well-designed, but I’m not 100% sure of the result. Maybe I’m wrong, but I can just feel the difference. Once I dropped 1 AS and rolled CHD(based on original frame table it gives me +7~8% dps), and tried to push GR135, but I couldn’t even get close.
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