I used LoD as opposed to PE. PE is not as good because of Echoing Fury. Because you can increase your attack speed by 75% because of EF realistically you will be lucky if you get an extra break point from PE.
I personally thought it did better than IK, but that is just my opinion. More people need to try it out. Right now I am leveling gems so I can augment my LOD HotA set when the patch drops.
No real issues keeping WotB up 100% of the time but then again I didn’t push hard I just stopped where I had to start fishing. If there is no trash around to keep the attack speed up from EF you could have issues. But that is just a different variable you need when fishing for that perfect GR.
I did not keep track of the highest IK HotA clears, but so far someone did 128 with LON HotA in S17. Seems a bit better than IK HotA to me (high para though, over 4600). 3rd gem used was Gogok. Build might be stronger in S18 with Echoing Fury, Mortick’s and Flavor of Time, but having to deal with that stupid chance-to-fear-proc won’t be fun for sure…
I thought the fear would be more of an issue but playing with Echoing Fury, it didn’t cause much of a problem. If you are attacking an elite you just end up following them around a bit and the quickly become immune to fear. At least that is what I noticed.
IK HOTA cleared 128 a while ago, likely with more Paragon. I have serious reservations about the dreams version of this build being as competitive as the nightmares version due to having to give up a gem. Echoing fury works when you can kill lots of trash very quickly, but that effect is going to fade as you continue to push into higher greater rifts. And the final effect of the weapon may be nerfed because in the PTR it was using the legacy attack speed value.
It would be a shame if it was nerfed. When we finally get a weapon besides Istvan’s that may be useful, the last thing we need to someone to make the weapon irrelevant again.
Even as is, it is hard to say it is going to be best in slot. I like options and EF is another option, hopefully it lasts as it is on PTR.
In the PTR Feedback forum, it was reported as a bugged item: Full Mechanics of new Legendary Affixes incl. Bugs and a QoL changes
It uses the legacy “+X.X attacks per second” code and not the current multiplicative value. The legacy affix applies to both weapons and could potentially make dual wielding even stronger than it currently is. That’s no bueno.
Nev responded in that thread, but didn’t say anything definite aside from there’s lots of work to be done on the item. If the PTR affix stays as is, it will be great for LoD HOTA up to a point, and that point is where your outgoing damage is insufficient to maintain stacks in fights. Just speculation on my part. Personally, I’m betting on a nerf, but all I really mean is that its legacy attack speed value will be changed to the current multiplicative value found on items like Istvan’s and the BK swords.
Even if it’s not nerfed, this isn’t really a buff so much as something that allows us to use the Dreams gem in place of Gogok. Like Mortick’s, it’s less a buff and more of a lateral swap. We’re still waiting on actual buffs, and by the looks of it, we’ll be waiting another patch or two.
So, I wouldn’t bet on the LoN or LoD HOTA build being much stronger than IK HOTA. The 128 clear proves it has just as much power as IK HOTA, and it very well could be stronger, but I’m reserving judgment until we see next Season’s clears.
Just to clarify. The attack speed calculation with EF works as follows:
APS = (WEAPON_BASE * WEAPON_IAS + ECHOING_FURY) * (1 + ADDITIVE_IAS)
And yes, this is a legacy affix that has been purged - some of the oldschool guys might remember the “+X.X attacks per second” affix on the original vanilla Echoing Fury. As one can deduct from the calculation, the only multiplicative %IAS multiplier in the game is the local “%increased attack speed” on a weapon (it’s local, because it only applies on one weapon and doesn’t have an effect for dual wielding). As of now Echoing Fury is additive to the Weapon Base, which is unique on its own; it essentially means the EF performs better for slower weapons and worse for faster weapons.
Personally, I advocated for them to change the IAS buff to be within the generic ADDITIVE_IAS category. We’ll see what they end up doing.
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I would think you would have to drop Trapped myself in the LoD version. Losing PE is just too much attack speed loss in higher rifts in density.
Yup. I read the PTR thread where you posted it. Did a few forehead slaps. Some of these items, smdh.
No way. Trapped is a massive damage multiplier. There’s no other way to make that up!
Can’t drop Stricken.
Need PE’s attack speed for Zodiac like you said. It also adds a lot of damage having that attack speed in groups.
I think Felix’s idea was to use Echo Fury in the Cube to replace PE. I think that’s a good idea up to the point where mob HP requires you to fish, at which point it may be hard to keep up EF stacks, which also makes it hard to get enough Zodiac procs.
It could work, though. Gather density, hammer, and when EF stacks are up, focus elites. When they drop, drag elites to next pack of density. Maybe you can keep up EF stacks just by killing trash. Guess we’ll find out when 2.6.6 drops.
You equip EF and PIgstick, cube GoJ and swap PE for LOD. I did GR112 on the PTR with no fishing at 18k str. With proper gear and augments, I think I would get around GR114-115 before I had to start finish with 2.2k paragon.
But the idea is just what Free mentioned, it will be like getting stacks of rampage prior to going after the elites.
I’m not sold on EF yet, especially if it was bugged in PTR, we don’t really know where it will fit in regarding GR pushing.
If it does indeed turn out to be a good fit when 2.6.6 goes live, then I could see using Trapped over PE.
The 128 clear used Gogok-Trapped-Stricken. (4637 Paragon) You’d almost certainly drop Gogok for LOD in the next patch, and I’m guessing that would cost you no more than 3 GR levels, probably only 1 or 2.
Rxt’s 128 was done with IK HOTA, 7609 Paragon.
The Paragon difference is pretty wide. Will be very curious to see non-Season push LoD HOTA to its limits.
What can replace dropping Gogok?
You’ll lose some CDR, which would require two non-weapon CDR rolls. You’ll have to be careful not to lose AD for that.
The Dodge and attack speed aren’t make or break, even if the latter helps for Zodiac procs. What other items can compensate for this? Maybe Echoing Fury, but it’s going to depend on the final value of the affix.
I mean, there’s zero question that the build will be a little weaker outside of season 17, and you will certainly end up losing a little of something, whether that’s CDR, AD… CHC (since so much is already built-in to HOTA)… but I don’t think it will cause a large drop in GR clearing potential.
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Keeping this thread alive, I’m thinking it should be stickied. Anybody have the expertise to update the guide for 2.6.6? I’m playing this build in S18, but haven’t finished it yet and just broke into TXVI.
Open questions I’ve got:
How does it compare with IK?
Is EF BiS?
Trapped or PE?
Do stone gauntlets fit in anywhere?
You needn’t 70 lvl WD.
Create a WD char (1 lvl). Craft 70 lvl rare pants and upgrade them to legendary untill you get Swamp LandWaders.
After that you can use your barb to reforge them until you get good stats.
I was playing with it over the weekend
I like Stone gauntlets over Magefist. I think EF is BiS but you need to roll STR off for CDR. Trapped is much better than PE. It is fairly comparable to IK HotA. Initially I thought it was going to be better, but running them both I could do 110 just as good as one as the other. If there is a difference in GR level to be it would be 1 or 2 GR at most and I couldn’t tell which is really the strong. If I had to guess LOD is stronger because I was doing about the same with a lot less augmented gear.
I got a Primal EF and was debating rolling the STR or %Damage off for CDR, I guess long term it is best to roll the STR off. Some folks are getting crazy clears with this build early in the season and I’m not quite sure if it’s a mixture of Flavor of Time and the GR lottery or if I’m doing something wrong.