I really understand what you said. And I Extremely agree with that “Barbarians have no damage so they must rely on AD and massive pulls to let them get into higher tears”.In fact,we do this as you said.
But,even 5 targets limits Slam’s damage,Slam also has Competitiveness.If there is no 5 targets limit, I can not image its cap.
2 Likes
Yes, exactly
SS bracer should have no limit
OR be like +4000% Slam dmg vs 5 Target
That would be crazy!
How much strength are you running with? I have 23k str at 2400 paragon. You have 7000 more paragon than me which is an extra 35000 strength which should put you around 58k. Throw in higher augments I would say you should be around 59k unless you roll strength off every item for a better stat which you make you even stronger.
On my EQ character 48,000
I don’t know where you are getting 58,000 from, not that 58,000 STR would matter, because what is gimping the damage is the target cap, not some magical STR number.
A lot of theory-crafting going on (instead of actual testing on higher tiers) and extrapolation of numbers, assuming builds can magically jump 10 tiers just due to paragon.
;/
Any build capped at 5 targets will hit a HARD wall on a class like Barbarian which relies almost PURELY on AD. This is just a fact of the class right now because Barbarian has virtually no damage and relies solely on AD. Anyone who pushes with Barb knows this.
The only reason – the only reason – Barbs have clears in the 130+ range is due to abusing huge open maps, making HUGE pulls, and relying on 160%+ Area Damage procs to kill the trash and chunk down elites. Then you try to get a Conduit to make a ridiculous amount of time for the boss, because since Barb has 0 damage it needs a ridiculous amount of time to stack Stricken.
That’s all Barb has, and this build can’t take full advantage of that because when it makes huge pulls to use AD only 5 targets can create full damage AD procs. That is bad. Really bad.
If you were thinking otherwise based on theory alone I have some BAD news for you. This build is not close to the top Barb builds.
I did look at some of your duel wield builds and you have one that is 55k. My number are not off by much.
I run with quad glove but I have strength on both rings and have Rubies in my chest piece. You probably won’t have to run with diamond but you may and you will probably have str on just one ring (hard to get a quad compass rose). Also I don’t have strength rolled off on both my weapons which you may have to bring your strength down a bit. What I did find interesting is your helm on your leap character, you have all resist as opposed to str.
Recorded 5 videos showing the damage difference in 120 and 130 between this build and fire EQ
Could have actually gotten a 130 clear in one of those (with EQ), but bad follow up maps and no good pylons
Uploading now and you can see the damage difference yourself. Fire EQ isn’t even the top Barb build, so if this build can’t match it, it’s further behind even compared to the top builds (Charge, R6)
Btw I highly recommend you use Leoric’s Crown in cube instead of Cassius, it felt a LOT better since you want your damage cooldowns available immediately and the build is so tanky
Seismic Slam on a 120, very easy 100% clear rate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNX3utfj-FQ
Fire EQ on a 120, also 100% clear rate, damage is actually higher against boss (despite it being horrible boss)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpHAWzss_Ug
Fire EQ on 120 again with Nemesis this time (instead of Parthans) squishy but very easy to clear any 120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRiBOYcMeTo
Seismic Slam on a 130 on a Battlefield with Lacuni Thrall (best trash in the game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvH7D2vSBQo
Fire EQ on a 130 with an open spire, not the best trash but good elites, have enormous DPS vs elites even on low density - Killed 5+ elites without Conduit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkv9iiQeBNA&t=5s
There’s no comparison on a push setting. SS doesn’t have the consistent damage to melt elites on high density (not even Lacuni Thrall which is dense AF). And this comparison is against Fire EQ, which is not really a top build at all. Raekor 6 would eviscerate SS on any good pull.
When you run lower content the differences in builds aren’t as noticeable because the 5 target cap isn’t screwing you over as much, but the higher you go and the better the trash, the worse SS is compared to other Barb builds.
That said, this build is really good for mid tier farming where you aren’t aiming to fish perfect maps and the 5 target cap isn’t hurting you as much.
If I’m dropping 5,000 keys for the perfect scenario, any other push Barb build (WW EQ or R6 or Vile Charge) will do better than SS.
4 Likes
Arch I just watched your SS 130 with IP. I think your damage and progress was good but you are not playing the build right. I suggest forget every strategy in pushing that you apply in other builds.
Just leap further and slam backward. Only watch for oculus circles if you need to leap back. And you are wasting a lot of your slam time by trying to drag mobs. I suggest let them follow you while you keep slamming. Forget every drag strategy. Just keep slamming backward and let em follow. As long as some SS hits them, they will follow.
I think 130 is clearable at your level. Also forgot to mention: try to slam such that elite gets hit first and mobs behind them later. When you keep elites in this 20 yard range, bloodshed procs from mobs back will amplify your damage by about margin of 2 (more mobs behind, the better)
Note: Also you played leapquake for thousands of hours, but this is the first time you are trying this build. Please try to understand the play style of this build. It is a slow play but when played right, it actually can do some damage.
The 130 with SS is against the best trash in the game, you shouldn’t need to play Lacuni Thrall perfectly to make progression— any other Barb build would have gotten a massive lead in those pulls and destroyed the blues way faster just with AD procs.
Having to reposition SS to try and hit elites first while 130 trash is jumping at you is a waste of time, just shows how weak the build actually is and how bad the 5 target cap is.
I disagree with you strongly on the damage difference you think positioning makes for SS on 130… it’s Lacuni Thrall. Literally free progression, and SS can’t even get ahead of the bar on the best trash in the game.
I’m leaning towards your calculations aren’t matching real in-game results instead of it being a gameplay issue. See my 120 where the build works just fine. My gameplay on 120 is the same as on 130.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNX3utfj-FQ
120 even with “bad gameplay” is 11m or less clear on pretty much any map. But the damage isn’t translating in 130 even with Lacuni Thrall which is Barb heaven.
SS Falls apart in 130+
You asked for video evidence and there it is. Now please stop making baseless claims about SS!
You just played this build once and conclusions seems solid. Whilst people have been playing leapquake for like forever.
Just a matter of time someone clears 130 with it. So ppl should not be surprised when it happens. However, playerbase is reduced such that no one likes to experiment and enjoy. We are seeing the plays from very different glasses but you have your preferences. I am not judging them. However, our claims are not baseless. You seem to not like it. That is your taste. That is all.
Dude Seismic Slam + Bracers of Destruction is not a new build, I’ve played it before many times. This mechanic is not new. What’s “new” here? Extra damage from Captain Crimsons? 
Get real.
It’s not “taste” when I see a build that can’t get ahead on Lacuni Thrall.
What the hell dude, you are ignoring the fact that I literally fished with SS on 130 until I spawned the best trash in the game on a BF to give it a fair shot and at the same time accusing me of bias?
News flash: on worse mob comps SS does even worse, I just didn’t record those so you wouldn’t accuse me of bias and you did anyway.
Ridiculous.
On other attempts I had I fell behind massively because it can’t kill most trash on 130.
I don’t think Arch is saying the build can’t push 130 depending on the player and map.
I think he’s saying it’s not worth it because there are several better builds more capable of reliably pushing 130+ if he wants to do such a push.
I’m kind of confused what this whole current argument is about to be honest. I’ve always enjoyed Frozen Fury. I played it a lot with Siladil, Henry, and CC123. But some of you think it’s all of a sudden become top tier… just because of Captain Crimson? I’m confused.
It’s a fun build. MotE and Vanished Peak increase the damage a crap ton. But like Arch keeps saying, until Destruction gets a buff, I don’t see a Seismic Slam focused build pushing as far as other builds.
It’d be like Impale DH losing the two extra Impales it gains from Holy Point Shot.
Can it clear a 130 in perfect circumstances with perfect pylons in 14:30 ish mins? Sure.
And with those circumstances Whirlwind, EQ, R6, and VileCharge will do 134 in 12 mins.
I was being nice to you by fishing the best trash in the game for Barb to prove a point. Want me to upload SS 130s with sub-par trash, falling behind by 5mins +? Because if you want to see a disaster on SS 130 I can easily show that.
You’re accusing me of bias but the bias is with you, since this is a thread you made on a build you are promoting. I’m the one actually taking it into 130s.
Thanks for trying man. I am not playing D3 as much anymore to push it. So the guide is out here, people are free to use it. I am not promoting it but I am also not demoting other builds. I am simply saying we have another build that can break 130… We never claimed it will be thr top performer. People will only find out if they try.
Based on my testing I would not go claiming it can do 130. The perfect circumstances I am talking about would be a world class map for WW where you can 1 floor it with power for boss, so basically 1/20,000 keys or so.
Also this build is very slow on the boss at 130. Spawned boss 2 times (Cold Snap, Sand Shaper) and needed 5:40 mins to kill. When your cooldowns are gone you do no stacking against the boss.
That is very bad. Even EQ kills bosses faster than this.
In perfect circumstances, I know WW can clear 134. But you don’t see people advertising WW as a 134 build do you?
1 Like
Arch,
Thanks so much for doing this. I truly appreciate you taking the time to look at this.
I did notice some things with your SS build. First a there is around 4500-5500 strength you could add from augments and ancient gear that a person who is hunting for gear for this set would do. (just going with 600 str augs).
Second is if you were really pushing this build there would be 20 AD is missing from your shoulders.
Third I also see that you are running very high vit 1.5 million which seems absurdly high for as tanky of a build as SS is. I am guess you did this just to go between EQ and SS easier and not mess with changing paragon? In your 120 run you heath is perfectly cap when IP is up and on your EQ build it looks like a yoyo.
Just a quick guess, adjusting your vit, augmenting gear and getting AD on your shoulders there is around 30% more damage that could be had if you pushed the build.
Not saying it is going to directly compete with EQ but it seems to me that 130 is definitely in the realm of possibilities.
Once again thank, I need to watch your Quake runs more closely to figure out what I have been doing wrong with that build.
What? My shoulders have 18% AD.
An extra 4000-5000 strength from augments on a character already nearing 50,000 strength is going to do absolutely nothing, you do realize that, right?
30% damage??? From a few extra thousand points in strength??? NO. More like 3%, if even that.
I feel like I walked into crazy town where people are ignoring facts to believe in wishful thinking
1 Like
Sorry Arch I am an engineer I squeeze everything to the max. If you have 50k str and you add 5k that is a 10% damage increase. Every bit helps.
As for the shoulders having AD, I am blaming it on my early drinking 
What??? You do not understand how scaling works in this game if you think that adding 5000 strength to a build based almost completely on multipliers is adding 30% damage. We’re talking about a character already at around 48,000 strength. More strength will do absolutely nothing for me.
Adding more strength won’t give you anywhere close to 30% extra damage.
What kind of engineer are you? There’s no way you work with math for a living, or you don’t understand D3 mechanics.
Wtf???