The graph was made in d3planner using the example build. Horizontal axis is yards and vertical axis is the simulated DPS of an 800 paragon player (represent average player). The difference in the peak you see in bloodshed gets greater with higher paragon level. It is not an insignificant number.
And d3planner is not properly considering Zei’s buff so the graphs you see must actually have a slope. It is the website problem. D3planner is not calculating the Zei’s correctly.
How does paragon level affect relative difference? All conditions are the same except our base (listed) damage.
p.s. And with 150 level Zei’s gem the bonus from distance seems be greater than Bloodshed damage.
In general if you increase damage by 50% you can do 3 more GRs.
Above 800 paragon most of your paragon points will go to strength. If you are at 10000 strength you need to get to 15000 strength to get 3 more GRs which is 1000 extra paragon. If you are at 20k strength you need to get to 30k strength which is 2k more paragon. As you get more paragon you will get better gear and level your gems more so this is just an approximation. It is all relative to where your at and where you are trying to get to.
Bloodshed damage in a build that has high attack speed and hits multiple targets is incalculable imo. Because it takes all of your critical hits, divides by 5, and then releases that as damage. So I’m not sure if you can say Zei’s at level 150 is more damage.
There’s a few things that do not make Bloodshed fit nicely as I’ve said, but overall, Bloodshed if used well is just so much damage.
Unfortunately trying to keep distance and only getting the Bracers bonus on 5 enemies per attack do limit it. But it can still be a lot of damage.
Love all the discussion and testing going on here. Excellent work as always, Barbs. We don’t simply create and refine builds. We create and refine experiences.
Now all we need is to get some Slam buffs and this build can soar!
Jako,
I just checked you build out that you mentioned. In this build with Leoric and IP iron hide, IP is not up 100% of the time. It is up only 72%. You need PoC or Zodiac to have 100% up time on IP.
Ya, that was an exaggeration. I don’t literally need it up 100% of the time though since M4 and BoM do most of the heavy lifting. IP is more situational. Iron Hide just guarantees it lasts longer until I can leap, reposition, and regen through StP.
Yeah I can test whatever you want.
The problem with Bloodshed is it’s taking all the crit damage you dealt and only applying it to a few yards around your character every 1 second. It’s better suited to close range builds.
The old Bloodshed, which worked on crit impacts themselves, would have been wayyy stronger for this build.
Want me to test STP and dropping IP for something else?
7 second IP is good for delaying your leap if you’re in a good spot to dps stuff. IP is also good because I think then Zodiac build is superior.
I agree that Bloodshed isn’t doing much and can try something else like Klling Spree.
128 felt very easy with the Zodiac build and the boss was the easiest part (see video), so I’m inclined to say whatever gives the Zodiac build more damage is the way to go.
Here is what I think will work best
| Slot | Item |
|---|---|
| Cube armor | Mortics |
| Cube ring | RoRG |
| belt | CC |
| ring | Zodiac |
| Skill 1 | Iron Hide |
| Skill 2 | StPS |
| Passive | Brawler |
| Gem | Zeis |
It is what you ran 128 with just changing bloodshed to StPS. Damage will be close. Its the same at distance. You will have a lot more healing so you shouldn’t have to leap as much, which can add up to 15% more damage.
I pick Brawler over Ruthless because Ruthless only works well on short fights. The longer the fight the worse Ruthless is due to the exponential effect of Stricken.
I ran a spreadsheet to see on a 4 minute RG fight how much time does it save. Turns out it was around 4.5 seconds.
About the only other way to go to see if we can do more damage is to pull mobs to us and use bloodshed and AD on tightly packed mobs. Haven’t got a build for that yet it is on my things to do.
The discussion about bloodshed. I just put a photoframe from Storm’s 121 clear. Eventhough the mob density died down quite a bit, bloodshed damage is visible 4.2T. Note this gets much higher with correct positioning.
You want to hit such that Elite is among the 1st 5 enemies and withing your 20 yards while mobs must be positioned behind the elite in order max the bloodshed proc (as much as possible, may not occur 100% ideal). Based on my past tests with StP, DPS is going down severely and the 360 degree AoE of bloodshed helps shave of some mobs coming from behind. As Arch pointed out the AD from the mobs (apart from the first 5) will suffer greatly so the bloodshed may be considered an AD supplement to this build. Feel Free to try StP, but the DPS will be much less overall. On the other hand, if IP can be forfeited somehow, overpower killing spree is a nice option, but the it will mess up the Zodiac version for the cooldowns. Another option I looked at was Revenge with its 8% CHC buffing rune (forgot its name). It gives a bit healing as well. (for testing purposes)
If healing is an issue, there are other options such as SS-Strength From Earth. Of course Trapped proc will get affected, but I am not sure if the stuns from Zei’s secondary will benefit trapped as well?
In I have played similar builds since S6 and with the old bloodshed, it was almost godly for density. BS procs from mob to mob was doing some serious AD. Unfortunately, in order to reduce server load due to WW, just because of WW, they ruined this skill for SS builds.
The photoframe is below:
I can’t seem to find a discussion abot lon fire hota barb. Anyone can help me find some discussions about it newbie player here
Hi guys I am a fan of the build and I play around a lot with it on PS4.
I find that having Furious Charge with a fury per hit rune ,instead of Warcry, is the best option for me. It keep the toughness up in addition to leaping from BOM, keep Fury up once the COTA is on downtime (8 sec only), keep fast moving speed up.
Furious charge also helps a lot on getting the right distance of 50 yard for the Zei’s gem bonus.
Works wonders for me.
I wonder if I can max AD and CDR while ditching Str. on the items+augment them with 85 level strength gems. I do it only with items that have are ancient (650 str tops) to make minimal damage to the str count)
I do not like Zodiac since it puts out of sync the COTA+WOTB
I relay on high CHC from the battle rage to heal me. I use the gem to bump my CHC by 10% when enemy is chilled.
This is the build I am using currently with the wanna have gear
on diablo3planner: 241643727
I am not a high level player but it works well for me right now 
Any thoughts on going the AD+CDR root?
Prokahn?
anyone?
It’s sticky at top of Barb forum
I tried STP and the healing is nice but defense isn’t really this build’s issue.
All Barb builds need only thing and one thing only: more damage
Thanks for checking. When trying to compete against GR133 clears every little bit helps.
Did you notice that you have to move less when using StPS? if you are leaping once every 8 seconds vs 4 seconds that is a 15% damage increase. This alone is a greater damage change that going from Gogok to Zeis.
You may also be able to take 1k paragon out of Vit and put it to str. This would also give you another 10% damage increase. (not sure this is the number it may only be somewhere between 2-10%). Based on the video of your 128 clear I wouldn’t recommend dropping your vit without this change.
On your 128 clear, you died 4 times if I remember correctly. Zero deaths in a GR compared to 4 is around another 10% damage increase.
So you aren’t going to see major number changes but over all this change has the potential to bring you more damage if I have approximated the damage of bloodshed correctly and you try and stay more at range.
This is what I try to maximize with this approach diablo3planner: 241643727,
I wonder how 20% AreaDamage vs 650 str. on the item will affect my damage and overall progression. Does it helps, does it not, should I stay with str. and CDR only?
I address the build itself, not Barbarian balancing. Is there any way to know from the D3planner, can I trust the damage it shows?
Hi guys sorry if i’m a bit noob with the questions i ditch my vyr wiz cause barb is what i really wanted to push gr’s wondering if im on the right track with my Fire LoN build or should i go to WW/LEAPQUAKE? Thanks!
Just need the gem to 99 and all ancient gear.
Refer to the sticky guide here at the top of the forum…
Hello. Yes i’m also reading that guide does the data tells us which build is better to go for cause I’m gonna do augmenting soon i don’t wanna waste my time augmenting wrong set equips. Thanks!
Make a new post on the page and ask there. It is irrelevant here.