Guardian's Jeopardy is Outdone by Crimson/Aughild

PTR Feedback
1

Overview
This 3pc Set underwhelms in every circumstance. As a 6,500 paragon player this set only gave me +9% Damage. 53,595 (Guardian) - 49175 (Crimson). No good.

Is the purpose is to make Main Stat and Vitality rolls more appealing? Is the goal to give a boost to lower paragon players? Let’s do both:

Solution

Guardian’s Jeopardy
2pc: Your base Vitality Attributes from equipped items are increased by 50%.
3pc: Increases damage by 0.4% of your base Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence from equipped items. Increases damage reduction by 0.4% of your base Vitality from equipped items.

How it Works
Assume you are wearing 7,900 of main stat across 13 pieces of gear.

Max Main Stat: 1450 + 4000 + 5200 = 10,650 main stat
Typical Main Stat: 1000 + 3000 + 3900 = 7,900 main stat

The 2pc
We still get the 50% main stat from equipped items. The typical setup yields 3950 main stat and Vitality.

The 3pc
Grants an extra multiplier that has diminishing returns with paragon. Carrying 7,900 main stat from equipped items gives 31.6% damage.

Combine these two multipliers for a VERY balanced set bonus if compared to Captain Crimson/Aughild.

Here’s how they tally up, pay close attention to the last column, as that indicates the total damage increase across different paragons.

Paragon Base Gear Augments Paragon MS Main Stat Main Stat w/ 2pc Damage from 2pc Damage from 3pc Combined Damage
800 7900 6500 750 15150 19100 26.07% 31.60% 65.91%
2000 7900 8125 6750 22775 26725 17.34% 31.60% 54.42%
3000 7900 9750 11750 29400 33350 13.44% 31.60% 49.28%
4000 7900 9750 16750 34400 38350 11.48% 31.60% 46.71%
5000 7900 9750 21750 39400 43350 10.03% 31.60% 44.79%
6000 7900 9750 26750 44400 48350 8.90% 31.60% 43.31%
7000 7900 9750 31750 49400 53350 8.00% 31.60% 42.12%
8000 7900 9750 36750 54400 58350 7.26% 31.60% 41.16%
9000 7900 9750 41750 59400 63350 6.65% 31.60% 40.35%
10000 7900 9750 46750 64400 68350 6.13% 31.60% 39.67%

Assumes all primal items, 800 paragon players have 13 gear slots augmented with level 100 augments, 2000 paragon players have 125 augments on all gear.

COMPARISON TO CRIMSON & AUGHILD

Versus Trash Versus Elites
Crimson @ 28% CDR 28% 28%
Crimson @ 40% CDR 40% 40%
Crimson @ 50% CDR 50% 50%
Crimson @ 60% CDR 60% 60%
Crimson @ 70% CDR 70% 70%
Aughild 30% 69%
Guardian @ 2000p 54.42% 54.42%
Guardian @ 5000p 44.79% 44.79%
Guardian @ 10000p 39.67% 39.67%

WHEN TO USE GUARDIAN
Low paragon players will likely start with Guardian, unless the CDR/RCR utility from Crimson is needed, or the build cannot accommodate Guardian Jeopardy’s item slots.

LET’S LOOK AT THE DEFENSE
Since the Damage Reduction value is comparable to the Damage from 3pc, expect 31.6% DR from this setup.

17 Likes
2

I appreciate the numbers, but it was clearly a bad set just reading it.

3

Care to explain what you didn’t like about the suggested change? Is it just the wording?

4

Sorry, I meant the set Blizzard designed was bad.

1 Like
5

The set needs to multiply your total mainstat and vitality, paragon and augs included. Then it might be taken over Crimson or Aughild for certain builds that don’t rely on CDR/RCR/elite dmg.

1 Like
6

That would certainly be the simplest solution. Essentially a flat 50% buff to your damage, regardless of what paragon you’re starting at, and a somewhat larger buff to your toughness (since you are increasing your life pool, via vit, by 50% and also getting extra DR via mainstat).

In comparison, Crimson generally gets you 50-70% extra damage and 28-35% DR, though there are cases, like with Raekor, where the real mitigation is much higher.

And Aughild gives you 15% DR vs everything, 40.5% DR vs elites, 30% more damage vs everything, and 69% more damage vs elites.

It does kind of feel, when looking at the numbers, that Crimson would probably still see a lot of use, but Aughild might kind of fall by the wayside, if Guardian were 1.5x to both total mainstat and vit. Maybe 40% would be fairer.

3 Likes
7

Good suggestion DMKT.

I didn’t see the current performance of the set in your analysis, so I’m adding it here for comparison’s sake.

Currently, Guardian is providing low para players (~800) with ancients and augments about 25% dmg and armor/all res. If you could convert the extra Vit granted into main stat via paragon (build dependent) then it’s providing 37% dmg and armor/all res.

It should go without saying that as you gain paragon, those percentages will fall.

1 Like
8

Agreed. It just feels like it’s still a “starter set;” something to use until you get your real gear and build completed. It will still be abandoned after that happens.

Even just looking at the ability to turn CDR into damage % boosting, Crimson still wins out.

9

Yep, 50% would be a bit too much for a straight up multiplier to mainstat + vit. 35 or 40% would grant that much damage multiplier plus 25.9% or 28.6% effective damage reduction respectively (not even counting toughness from mainstat). This is more in line with the Crimson and Aughild bonuses.

2 Likes
10

Do we know the DR gains with straight up 40% increase in main stat at various paragon stages?

10000, 20000, 30000, 40000, 50000, 60000

Can someone provide a mini table with those?

Thank you!

11

With a 40% mainstat buff, it should approach 1-1/1.4 = 28.6% DR with mainstat approaching infinity.

It practice it’ll vary a bit depending on your base armor/all res. And what you have for % armor/all res buffs.

I dunno what we want to assume, say 500 base all res on an int class?

With no % all res buffs:

mainstat res res w/ 40% int buff DR equivalent
10000 1500 1900 17.8%
20000 2500 3300 21.9%
30000 3500 4700 23.8%
40000 4500 6100 24.8%
50000 5500 7500 25.5%
60000 6500 8900 25.9%

With 200% bonus all res (Tal’s 4p):

mainstat res res w/ 40% int buff DR equivalent
10000 4500 5700 19.8%
20000 7500 9900 23.4%
30000 10500 14100 24.9%
40000 13500 18300 25.7%
50000 16500 22500 26.3%
60000 19500 26700 26.6%

And would the proposed Guardian’s additive with other % mainstat buffs like Soul Harvest/Gruesome Feast, Finery, Rampage etc.? That would change the value a bit.

1 Like
12

This sounds like it would be a needlessly complicated implementation that harms particular classes and/or builds, but it’s important to bring up.

1 Like
13

And what’s the baseline armor from gear? 5000 armor before mainstat?

So the armor table with 25% paragon buff would be:

mainstat armor armor w/ 40% str/dex buff DR equivalent
10000 18750 23750 20.7%
20000 31250 41250 24.0%
30000 43750 58750 25.4%
40000 56250 76250 26.1%
50000 68750 93750 26.6%
60000 81250 111250 26.9%

And with 25% paragon + Stone Gauntlets:

mainstat armor armor w/ 40% str/dex buff DR equivalent
10000 56250 71250 20.9%
20000 93750 123750 24.2%
30000 131250 176250 25.5%
40000 168750 228750 26.2%
50000 206250 281250 26.6%
60000 243750 333750 26.9%
1 Like
14

That was expected. A Guardian protects, so where are all the defensive buffs from the set?

1 Like
15

Yeah, it leans a little bit in a certain direction.

As a solution, I think the 40% main stat does work out okay. Don’t forget the extra eHP from Vitality too. The DR is probably worth a little more than what was cited on those tables.

16

Yeah sorry those were just for the DR from the mainstat increase. For 40% more vitality too, it’d be another 1.4x toughness factor, so approaching 48.9% DR as mainstat increases. Say about equal 45% DR for 20k-30k mainstat (before buff).

1 Like
17

THIS. THIS right here is feedback done right. Thank you for being a ray of light in this complaining cesspool.

5 Likes
18

Amazing feedback guys! I like that your solution still keeps with the theme of benefitting low paragon the most while still making it viable for higher paragons because as it stands now it’s a toughness buff for lower paragon not really damage and just completely useless for high paragon.

I’ve been actually using this set for my wizard clears, its only benefitted Firebirds thus far, all other sets it’s weaker because that build has no use for CDR/RCR for Crimson and is weaker than Aughilds for damage, only slightly better for DR (mainly because not reliant on elites) only because of prioritizing vitality mind you.

My first thought was to have it benefit from Augmentation, in fact almost thought it might be then thought better when seeing the word ‘base’. It certainly needs those damage/dr multipliers unless you just go crazy and say 100% buff to attributes, but again 3k paragons will be looking to exit even a double buff.

1 Like
19

Rage, check your email!

1 Like
20

Just a note: one of the more important features of getting more DR (say, a new 50% source), as opposed to just getting more life (say, 100% more) is that in the former case, X quantity of most healing sources (LpH, LpS, etc) is considerably more valuable. Of course, some items and effects (SS gem, WW: Blood Funnel, etc) instead heal based on a % of your max life, so that wouldn’t be the case.

2 Likes