i told you how strong Guardian set was. It was going to be worn on every build in the game.
You will use RROG with every guardian build and you will like it!
1 Like
It appears as if you missed this part of the PTR release notes so I’ll just copy paste it for you but
Please note that this is a preview for PTR content, which is subject to change
lol, everyone knows that.
It’s just hard to see good things die.
2 Likes
Hear is the truth. Sadly people tested builds based on not needing the 3 piece and RORG in the cube. Which means that now you lose your CoE with thr RoRG. So builds that were doing GR 143 at 5k paragon using Shadow strafe Just took a 50 percent damage nerf. SO… if they WERE happy with this set doing 140 ish they need (could) to buff the HOLY POINT SHOT 100 percent damage buff to 150 - 250 % as the max depending on whether they feel high 130s, 140 or 145 is where they want it to end up at 4 to 5k paragon.
I did not test any other sets but this amounts to a 50 percent nerf to people below 3kish paragon for sure. Hope they kept that in mind when nerfing the SET so hard.
edit: if you go to maxroll and compare sets other than Guardians… at about 1200 paragon points into Dexterity …1800 paragon. the guardian set on the shadow strafe is even damage with captains set bonus as an example. SO yeah, huge nerf early on and not matter as much after 1800. I still think it needs a buff to holy point shot to replace the loss of the CoE. People are going to love the build and play and still way back from other new build like BOTH Barb AC builds.
LOL I guess back in the trash bin that crafted set goes.
Its hilarious some of the decisions this company makes behind closed doors when it comes to game design. Shows a clear disconnect between what they know and what high level players know about the mechanics.
Crimson just a clear winner now in my opinion compared to Guardians. Especially once you’ve stacked some CDR/RCR on your own gear and get a lot more damage from the Crimson bonus. Maybe if you have no CDR/RCR for some reason… maybe then you don’t fit Crimson in, but most probably will.
Aughild’s actually does a lot of damage to Elites… so I don’t know who is choosing Guardian’s over Aughild’s.
I guess it’ll ultimately come down to what open item slots you got.
But Aughild’s is typically going to use the Bracer slot. Crimson is typically going to use the Belt slot. Guardian’s only really makes sense with Belt/Bracer… and now either Helm or RORG. That’s a lot to give up for a weak bonus.
A lot of builds do have a specific Bracer after all. Not all of them of course, but a handful definitely do.
Ugh. This is a disappointing. Really wish they had kept the 2-piece/3-piece the way they were and had instead made the 3-piece an interesting bonus for niche builds.
3 Likes
Someone was like forget using it. So i went back and checked and yes. The convention of elements does more damage then the Guardian Set by about 5 percent so once you can cube the CoE the guardian is trash. And at paragon 1800 OR when you take main stat off gloves weapons or amulets it becomes trash. They only way it will have any use will be if it is a lvl 70 craftable. SMH
They should have it go back to a two piece like tested this season and then work on the real fix in the upcoming months. Will not happen through because the back and forth kinda makes them look stupid for listening to someone who never tested it out first.
There’s a difference between looking stupid and being stupid. The former is more respectable.
One question, what if the devs merged 2 & 3 piece bonuses. Would be game breaking or even too powerful? That way only two of the three pieces would be needed without RoRG. Unconventional I know but it might be a middle ground all can be happy about.
@dmkt Why did my thoughts go to an idea you proposed about Blackthorn’s a while back when I first saw this new designed Guardians.
1 Like
Yes, which is why I say that is not something people do. Very few ever admit when they make mistakes anymore, they just blame others and if they are really wrong they just start insulting people rather than explaining why someone is in error.
They buffed the set twice, then nerf it to almost the point of not being useless again. I dont care and am not complaining just giving mathematical observations and calculations. At this point I just want to play since the seasons are like 3 months longer than they should be since the first 3 weeks are when people play it.
The concept is practically the same. A clone of Captain Crimson:
Acquire stat X, Increases Damage by X.
We need more ways to hit other item slots and affixes. Captain Crimson grants incredible utility, benefitting 4 areas:
- Damage
- Defense
- Cooldown
- Resource Cost Reduction
Guardian’s Jeopardy with greater potency occurring in the earlier stages of the game:
- Damage
- Defense
I have spit out so many Blackthorne’s rework concepts. I do recall one where it was tied to elemental damage but I cannot find that one anywhere in the search:
- Life Per Second
- LoN Alternative
- Proc Amplifier
- Elemental Damage
I also recycled that Element damage concept for this Guardian’s Jeopardy rework idea.
Which kind of ties into a proposed idea for a Kridershot rework. Funny you mention missing posts, the whole concept I wrote about a UE6 rework is completely missing too.
Recommendations for UE6
Not too long ago I visited Wudijo's stream. I asked his thoughts on the future of UE6 and Multishot. He recommended de-emphasizing Multishot, since Marauder's has done a great job bringing Multishot to a competitive level -- he said to make Unhallowed Essence the Elemental Arrow set. This seems like heresy since UE6 MS is loved by so many, however, it might be the best way to breathe new life into a tired UE6 set with some careful item edits. So let's dive into it since it's the most interesting and sensitive topic:UE6 Elemental Arrow
Buff UE6 Elemental Arrow by approximately 35GRs without overshooting M6 Elemental Arrow or UE6 Hungering Arrow by adhering to the following rules:
- Directly add Elemental Arrow to the UE 6pc skill list and eliminate the resource free casting benefit granted by Kridershot. Enforce resource management since the UE2 and UE6 set bonuses are about Hatred and Discipline.
- Improve the UE 6pc bonus by no more than 9GRs.
- Do NOT buff Elemental Arrow supporting items like Kridershot and Augustine’s Panacea by more than 12GRs as it will help Marauder’s too much.
- Introduce a buff to the UE2 set bonus that increases the damage of Secondary skills.
Unhallowed Essence Set
(2) Set:
Your generators generate 2 additional Hatred and 1 Discipline. Your secondary skills deal 300% increased damage, but spend double the Hatred.
(4) Set:
Gain 60% damage reduction and deal 60% increased damage for 8 seconds if no enemy is within 10 yards of you.
(6) Set:
Your generators, Multishot, Elemental Arrow and Vengeance deal350%1400% increased damage for every point of Discipline you have.This advertently buffs N6UE2 Rapid Fire to GR136-139 territory for players around 4-5k paragon, who must also wear Elusive Ring.
Kridershot
Increases the damage of Elemental Arrow by 150-200% of your combined elemental damage.The sum of your sheet elemental damages multiplied by 3. Intended to synergize with Stone of Jordan and the Enchantress passives, and Wizard zDPS buffs. ie. A solo player will likely equip 70% cold damage, which becomes 840% (70% * 4 elements * 200%) total sheet elemental damage, which computes to a 9.4x buff to Elemental Arrow, but ultimately yields ~11-12GRs after to sacrificing a ring like CoE or RoRG.
Items like Uskang, Etrayu, Balefire Caster, Frostburns, Magefist and Cindercoat will double dip. They contribute additive sheet elemental damage and directly buff EA damage in excess of the 20% shown on the item. Going from 70% to 90% elemental damage grants roughly 39-40% more overall damage making the abovementioned items worth equipping.
Augustine Panacea
Elemental Arrow shoots an additional projectile and gains an effect based on the rune:
- Ball Lightning
now travels at 30% speeddamage increased by 425%.- Frost Arrow damage and Chilled duration increased by 250%.
- Immolation Arrow ground damage over time increased by 250%.
- Lightning Bolts damage and Stun duration increased by
250%500%.- Nether Tentacles damage and healing amount increased by
250%400%.This quiver will NOT add an extra projectile to Sentry fire, just like Holy Point Shot’s incompatibility with Sentry. Projectiles shoot straight, parallel to each other, and may slightly overlap.
Disagree. If de-emphasizing, it should removed from marauder and emphasize EA more on marauder.
I think UE should be the default MS set and MS is heavily shadowed by CA on marauder.
They won’t promote Elemental Arrow. That thing is a big problem because it creates so many entities by Frost Arrow, and Ball Lightning outright desynchronize the calculation traffic because it attacks so many targets as it passes through.
Lag issues makes any attempt of adding more projectiles busted from the start. Ball Lightning were already problematic and by adding more Frost Arrow will go under the same issues. Why, yes, I’m aware Sentries don’t benefit from that but that doesn’t exactly mean anything when Elemental Arrow as a whole supposed to be limited.
You may have bring the build up to GR145-GR150 by amplifying everything with 20x or 99999999999% because it’s YOUR favorite build. Yet it won’t matter when you lag so much from projectile spam that you can not play the Greater Rift as a coherent experience.
There was a reason why S27 sanctified power of Wizards got nerfed down to 10 Magic Missiles from 20; that’s very similar to Frost Arrow and Ball Lightning. All horizontal moving projectiles in the game (I guess homing ones are exceptions as they pick a target or spot from mid-air) have an after think script for their position and collision check. Some consistent damage projectiles like Ball Lightning add damage per tick next to it and the area damage calculations on top of that. You are looking at a huge mess.
Some builds deserve their place in the scale because maximum skill check they can offer is limited and their counters are too strong for them. Some builds are outright banished from high tiers because their calculations are a burden for server performance at a mass scale. There’s a reason why some builds won’t get buffed to promote their use among the hundred thousands of potential players between several online platforms.
Frost Arrow isn’t so bad, I used to play it on N6M4 back in the day. I’ve taken it to M6 with an Echoing Fury too, it works fine.
Ball Lightning can be a problem, it can shut down a solo or public game. I actually have a lag build in my Armory featuring that skill. Perhaps it’s time to drop the Ball for something else? Molten Arrow… or maybe edit Augustine to behave like Nether Tentacles and bump up the damage.
When I wrote up a suggestion for the M6 Rework, the removal of Multishot from the 6pc bonus was recommended because of redundancy. I also realized the impact of the 12,000% multiplier and reduced it to 5,000% (1275x vs today’s 1815x). It took them 2 extra steps, 1st to cut off M4’s 400% and then a consequent 200% buff to Bombardier’s Rucksack. (I personally feel the original suggestion was more balanced – but here we are GR150 at 5kp)
Multishot can stay on the 2 sets. The buff I provided UE6 is 9GRs, so those bleeding edge Multishot clears at 5kp will do GR143-144.
It can be removed from M6 too – but it will piss off some players if UE6 MS doesn’t match the M6 MS’s damage – so they’d have to upgrade either Yang’s or DML again.
We haven’t used EA/Chakram in years, people want to play them – I agree with them becoming strong.
Okay, you shoot two frost arrows at once and they split into a total of 20 different projectile entities instead of 10 now. Considering you can spam those and since your sentries spamming at least one frost arrow shot, each time you fire adding around 30 to 50 at once; I don’t think it will end well. I believe Frost Arrow has a very strict collision check and this will put some heavy burden. Especially when server keeps stacking more and more monsters with quadrillions of health as you progress in a high GR while trying to queue their death and attack animations all at once.
Previous patches developers surprised me for sure by stretching what I deemed impossible by the current engine limitations. Yet, I think it’s better to just accept that Elemental Arrow as a concept is not up to par, nor deserve to climb up just because it’s your favorite build. Afterall, if a spec needs 119000% damage multiplier (1400% per discipline with maximum of 85 disc) at average to be considered “good”, perhaps you have to face what other builds you may have broken at the process later.
This thread supposed to die off, quite a few posts ago before getting derailed…
To me UE is a more fluid, faster pace style. Suits MS as well. MS animation is more fluid/fast in a way comparing to CA/EA/Chakram etc. My vision of M6 is slower pace, but hits harder playstyle. MS on M6 feels…strange. Ofc, the muscle memory is heavily biased from UE. But pre historic days (pre UE), speed NR on M6 MS was so clunky, hence UE was introduced (S3 era?) So it feels odd if MS is back to M6 while UE is moved to something else.
Personally, I d like more competition for CA on M6, just not MS though.
I guess, the discussion has strayed off topic.
1 Like
OK so I really like the concept of this set, the one of lets have a set that is really good for lower paragon but gets overtaken later. Interesting way to bring in a tad bit of variation to your season. We spend almost the entire season as “I have my 13 items now need to find good versions of them”, most don’t reach the paragon level where more significant adjustments are made.
Now we have a situation where you get your six piece and supporting legendaries, get Guardians and then work toward the level where it is replaced and you are on the real endgame build. As I understand it this set will be superiour until like 1 700ish depending on your build even after the nerf. That is not a small amount of time for most players at all, in fact a large amount of people never even get there.
So even if the set becomes inferior sooner than it used to, for a large amount of players it will either be the new all season long build or the one they use for significant amount of the season while building towards their real push build. I would even be fine with it being overtaken earlier to be honest.
It was the play around life per hit and per second, if my memory serves me well.
The UE suggestion is very interesting and it got some valid answers, maybe best to regroup in the DH sub forum för that, I have some ideas to contribute with as well. Very late now so it will have to wait for tomorrow.
Take care all.
1 Like