Hi guys,
so i was lucky enough to roll a primal Quiver with following stats:
1000 vit
1000 dex
10 crit
20 ias
rolled: 15 % Hungering Arrow. This stat i could roll to 20% AD as im sitting just on 90% AD at the moment, i consider this.
But AD has only a 20% Chance to proc so…basically its 20%/5 = 4 % raw dmg increase vs 15% from the hungering arrow roll. So HA-Roll should be stronger, or am i missing something at the moment?
Thx in advance
AD is far more important than Hungering Arrow. That’s how GoD does damage, AD procs from piercing arrows.
Now I’m not a Demon Hunter, but I am 90% sure that +15% Hungering Arrow is also diluted by DIBBS, and you’re already running +600% on 9th, and presumably another 30% elsewhere.
Yeah i had the same thoughts…but isnt AD proccic off of Hungering Arrows? Wouldnt the 15% also increase the dmg of the AD - Procs as it improves my basedmg?
Based on the stats I see in your profile, you have 68.4% Taeguk and 30% HA bonus from belt and pants. Therefore 15% HA on quiver is 0.15/(1+0.684+0.3) = 7.56% damage increase for you.
Assuming your damage without 15% HA on quiver is 1, adding 15% HA will make it 1.0756. With these numbers we can compare your AD proc damage.
15% HA on quiver -> AD proc = 1.0756 x 0.9 = 0.968
20% AD on quiver -> AD proc = 1.0 x 1.1 = 1.1
Rolling AD will increase your AD proc damage by 1.1/0.968 - 1 = 13.64%
As you can see, the AD increase is quite significant. You also have to consider the fact that although HA pierces, it only hits monsters on its small trajectory so AD is very helpful even for fast GR farming.
I’d recommend rolling AD on that quiver.
Ty hunter for that detailed eplanation and some numbercruniching.
So yeah the 20% Ad will increase my AD - DMG by 13.64%. But only every 5th shot proccs AD so only 20% of the Hits.
So doesnt that mean for my overall dmg that AD gives me 13.64 * 0.2 which is roughly 2,7% Dmgincrease overall? Then this wouldnt look so good compared to the 7.56% from HA
That’s not how AD works. AD is 1.1x better than Hungering Arrow in this case (by Hunter’s amazing post) Slam it down.
Well due to the skilldescription, this is exactly how AD works. But ill give it a shot anyhow. This would like to have a second opinion from hunter/any other theorycrafter out there. And due to hunters Post it wouldnt be 11 times better but 2 times better. However if AD only affects 20 % of all hits it is a different story
AD proc is 10 yards AoE.
For instance, you fire a HA at a pack of 10 monsters, and HA itself only physically hits 5 monsters, while the hits proc AD three times hitting all 10 monsters. (Technically AD can only hit up to 9 monsters in this case since AD doesn’t hit the monster it procs from, but we will just ignore this for simplicity’s sake)
As you can imagine, AD will outperform HA bonus by a large margin in those scenarios.
That’s not quite accurate. What HunterKiller showed is that the area damage proc damage is about 13.64% better with area damage instead of hungering arrow on the quiver.
This does not mean that overall damage is 13.64% better.
In fact, on bosses area damage typically does absolutely nothing! The usefulness of area damage is tied to the density of monsters. In higher GR, typically you want to spend time grouping things (or using Ess of Johan procs from follower) to get that density higher. In many speed rift settings, stuff will die so fast usually that area damage procs are not very noticeable.
Fair point, Iria! Thanks!
Ok so with a HA-Roll i get: +7.56 overall dmg + an increased AD-DMg due to higher basedmg from 6,4%
And AD dmg is 13,64 higher than that if i roll AD. So if i find myself more at camping elites that means ill stick to HA
It’s true that AD does nothing on single target RG, but at the same time 7.5% damage increase from HA bonus won’t dramatically increase the RG killing speed in fast GR farming either. In other words, RG fight is usually a pretty minor part of a speed farming run as well. Does it really matter if you kill RG one second faster? This shouldn’t be your main concern when deciding between AD and HA bonus.
I have a similar quiver to OP’s and I’ve tried both HA bonus and AD in hundreds of fast GR105+ farming runs this season, and based on my experience I feel my clear speed is consistently faster with AD even though I already have 132% AD without quiver.
I’m saying these not because I disagree with you, but I want to point out that both AD and HA bonus are fine in speed farming and you can’t go wrong with either.
The difference the amount of AD makes is hard to quantify with the GoD6 build, simply because the build is so reliant on getting the most pierces possible in a given scenario. Since the pierce amount varies with every shot, even moreso vs pulled clusters, there’s no way to know if having less AD would have cleared out that same cluster.
HA could have pierced that cluster of mobs 13 times, or it could have done it 20+ times. More AD ofc will mean that it’ll take less pierces to get the job done, but since HA has no pierce cap, it’s quite possible that it would have pierced enough times to have cleared that area anyways, and since HA scales with each pierce, the AD on the latter pierces will be stronger. This can also go the other way where the arrow decides it doesn’t want to pierce more and/or if mobs happen to get outside of pixel range to prevent more from happening. When you look at the realities, it gets complicated.
Because this is absolutely random, it can swing either way, though HA damage is something you know you’re going to get value out of no matter what, even if it’s worse on paper. The pendulum of RNG will most likely swing in the direction of more AD the more HP the mobs have (really high GR’s), though for speeds and most content, it’s impossible to quantify the benefit of additional AD over HA.
Now I think about it, maybe I should have put it this way.
Rolling 15% HA bonus:
Direct hit damage increase = 7.56%, AD proc damage increase = 7.56%
Rolling 20% AD:
Direct hit damage increase = 0% , AD proc damage increase = 22.2% (1.1 / 0.9)
Yeah ok…so whatever i do the difference between those 2 rolls shouldnt be dramatic then :). Thx for clearing this up guys, apreciate it
I have another one for you:
Since i have that quiver ive experimented a lot with different Weapons. Esp Buriza.
I do have a primal Vallas and my Paperdmg with that one is about 4,445m. However i also found quite a nice Buriza which in direct comparision gives me an additional 24 AD for free as it already has the needed cdr on it also.
With the Buriza my Paperdmg goes down to 3,65m which is a signigificant diff. (Esp for pubs who look for Paperdmg xD)
But if i Import both setups into D3 Planner Vallas comes out with sth like 7,2m Dmg per Hungering Arrow and Buriza is at 8,2 due to its higher Min and Maxdmg.
So ive watched Wudjios Vid and Dieoxides Video about the Frame-Interaction. As far as i understood it its like this:
Gods Internal Cooldown for a Primary Proc is 9 Frames. This is the ideal Breakpoint you should attempt to get with a Weapon with the Strafe-Rune to have the maximum Amount of Hungering Arrows.
1h + 1h or 1h+Quiver dont reach those Values, therefore Vallas is used as its secodary can Procc aditional HAs up to a point where its almost on par with a weapon that would give you the perf 9F-BP
So if i understood this correctly…and im getting my perf 9F Breakpoint with Buri (7ias on gloves), my overall dmg should be higher than with my primal vallas although im almost lacking 1 mio Paperdps as you cant attack more often with HA than every 9 Frames and Buri already does that and has the higher Min and Maxdmg?
Yes, you’re correct.
I also have a primal Valla’s with 10% damage and 24% AD in season, but I only use it for fun from time to time. My primary weapon is a primal Manticore because it has 33% higher average damage compared to Valla’s.
nice, ty for confirmation hunter. So Whitedmg is actually a pretty usless idicator?
All i look for are Strafepoints and Hungering arrow dmg then on D3Planner?
So i just use dw then to boost my whitedmg in pub-games to satisfy those WD-Addicts? xD
Yes, these are the most important two factors you want to pay attention to.
Equip your primal Valla and quiver and they will be like “ZOMG! primals!! You’re in!” 
That being said, you have to beware of Speed Pylons ruining your 2h crossbow breakpoint in public games. It’s probably better to just use Valla in that case.