Games should not be fun. They're a job. Period

edit: short version is, i play for fun but today i found out games aren’t supposed to be fun and i’ve been riding in the wrong lane for the last 40 years and chances are most people too.

im sorry to go all boomer on this, but “back in my day”, games didn’t had endgame or postgame, the objective of games were to have fun. i’v played thousands of games with that mindset, including every blizzard game.

but, today i found this statements on a forum: “optimized builds aren’t supposed to be fun, they are supposed to work” + “having fun a and having an optimal build aren’t the same thing at all” + “lol you don’t grind for fun, you grind for something you want” + “games aren’t supposed to be all fun, you always have to work your 455 out to get elite items and that’s a fact” and my favourite “grinding for hundreds of hours to get an item is not fun, it’s an investement, and if you don’t have that mindset from the start, you should be playing something else”

maybe i’m too dense, but i don’t get that mindset as a prequisite to buy D2R, but it seems that, if you think otherwise, you are either a filthy casual or a filthy tourist without any right to express an opinion. much like 90% of this forums.

now i get it, and despite all the hate for the stance i play games for fun, after literally working my 455 out, i don’t want to have a second job.

i don’t know how much you “elite” guys get payed for high end gear, but isn’t it easier to just get a fifth job instead? grinding 8 years for a single item is worth that many hours?

but if this “work” i already brought can have additional rewards for me besides having fun, i should ask.

maybe im out of the loop, but, if games aren’t supposed to be “fun”, but a full time job, what’s the payrate? how much do you get for each high-end rune? do you get dental? how was this hidden for so many years and not among the “doctors and lawyers will hate this laboral secret they don’t want you to know” viral videos?

asking for a friend.


Well, personally, I’ve always said the only wrong way to play a game was a way you didn’t enjoy, even as I myself min/maxed some of the games I played (at one point leading a highly competitive Wow raiding guild grabbing some realm first kills along the way).

However, you need to ensure you don’t generalise too much going the other way - to some people, in some games, grinding out the uber-rare items is fun, and for those people, more power to them I say. You can even have fun overall when performing certain individual actions that might not be, for example a character build whose mechanics you might not absolutely enjoy, but which is capable of progression you do enjoy and can’t get via more favoured characters.

As for “endgame”, that’s always subjective I reckon, endgame is, whatever you make of it. In D2, that could be hitting level 80 if you wanted, for others it will be 99, for others it will be 99 and perfect gear even. There’s no “game ends here” line marked out in code, it’s purely a player point of view.

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What forum is that? Can you link it?

Absolutely. There are people who enjoy efficiency and being efficient IS the enjoyment for them. I for example, play Minecraft in a rather peculiar way, I’m obcessed with building farms and contraptions to automate stuff and be efficient. And that’s a “kids” block game (quotation mark on the “kids” part because that game has more depth than 90% of the “adult” games in the market)


O my god, my minecraft factories. Using 10.3, with 300+ mods, Industrialcraft, railcraft, energetic engineering etc etc etc etc, having literally thousands of items being available for auto-crafting, with farms spread over several levels farming everything you could think of! Love it (also a massive fan of Factorio).

Yes, sometimes min-maxing or sucking every little bit of content out is the fun, other times just chilling out can be fun to, neither is right or wrong.

Have you tried dwarf fortress? It’s the final destination for this kind of contraption building stuff. Not very intuitive though, learning curve is steep

While it does take a lot of work to grind to 99 and/or complete the Holy Grail, it’s still fun and it’s still playing a game, none of which is a job, unless of course, like you implied, you’re making money from your game play. Which is the source of the most problems that have always plagued this game, and will be carried over to the remaster, but it’ll be much worse for the remaster, as the level of greed plaguing humanity is over the top insane.

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my point is that they literally said and i quote

if you’re having fun what’s the point in gating having fun? maybe that’s the fun of no having fun, so, funny, isn’t it?

it was on reddit, can’t remember if it was the r/arpg or the r/diablo sub.
still, my point is, games are not supposed to be fiun and some people agree. does it change anything to know if a certain source is given?

but that gives you joy. “fun”. you are “en-joy-ing” it. the point of this people is that games aren’t supposed to be fun. as in : “no joy is expected”

if it’s fun, why literally say i it’s not fun?

i get streaming could be a income. what i don’t get is how runes give you enough money to grind for years without any other source of income, as they stated, “games aren’t supposed to be fun” and “it’s an investment” in the same thought train is what makesme question why people play for fun instead of citing “farming for runes” as a the first option of a five job listing.

That’s a dumb statement. Don’t get caught up in dumb talk. State your opinion and argue your point or move on.

I consider my time spent playing D2 an investment in my well being, which is far more important to me than money.

Except normal Countess to make Stealth, I never farm for runes. Act 2 normal provides all the necessary runes to make the rest of the rune words I need to get to act 4. When in nightmare I work my way through everything, killing all the super uniques and bosses until I get to Baal, where I farm for experience ( to clvl 70) which gives me plenty of runes and gear to get a good running start in act 1 hell.

When in hell I farm specifically for experience starting in Act 1, which provides me with more runes and gear and once I’m zipping through act 1 alvl 85s, I can easily zip through acts 2 and 3 killing all the super uniques and bosses then into act 4 and farm Chaos for experience which has the side benefit of dropping all hrs and gody gear. Once Chaos is a breeze, I move to act 5 and clear it, which yields hrs and godly gear, I can then start smoothly farming Chaos, Nihlathak, WSKs 1,2,3 and Throne/Baal.

Once I’m clvl95 from playing this way I can rush seals doing 2 minute Chaos or less, then moving to Nihl and killing him in under a minute and then zipping to Throne/Baal and clearing it in 3 minutes. All without buying or selling or trading. I call this playing the game, having fun. It’s even more fun because I only play hardcore.

I don’t care about the opinion of people who farm gear to make real money or jsp fool’s gold.

Play the game, and have fun doing it.

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People (illegally) sell their drops online. That’s the way of “profiting” fom the game. But I highly suspect that the comments you saw were ironic, and you’re taking the bait by taking them seriously.

OP, you’re trying to resonate this idea with people who play only the same stale game for 10+ years.
Good luck.

Shame what D2Refunded could have been, but power to devs I guess they get to do minimum work.
Until they see the sales, that is.

And yet here you are, coming to the D2 (2000) forum to pester people who just wanna enjoy their “stale game” quietly. In every single topic.

You’re like a broken record.

I don’t know, maybe try seeing the point.
Both this topic and me have a common interest. Gee, I wonder what it is?

Oh yeah, we want D2R to be better and sell better!

P.S.: you are the one who is deliberately following me and singling me out, replying to me.

I follow this forum to talk about D2. Every topic I enter, you’re there trolling it. Hence why I call you out. But I’ll stop. I said all I had to say.

You’re coming to the D2 (2000) forum, where people like D2 (2000) in it’s vanilla state, and trying to sell something the crowd of this forum isn’t interested in. What exactly do you think you’re gonna achieve here? It’s like you’re going to a Magic the Gathering event and trying to sell Yugioh cards to the people there. LOL

Also this topic only exists because OP listened to some fools talking nonsense. The whole thing about the game being a job. It makes 0 sense.

Are you okay?

Also it’s not polite to talk about OP that way.
I agree with him and I also been told before things such as “optimized builds aren’t supposed to be fun, they are supposed to work”, especially when talking about melee builds.

And I mean oh look, just now a new topic made about the same thing me and OP are talking about!!!


THIS specific topic is clearly talking about change, i.e.: D2R, and not stale D2 2000.

Anyways, I am done with you, you seem to be having a bad day.
Feel free to follow me around.

I’d rather be sincere than polite. People keep spreading this malicious idea that the only way to enjoy videogames is to be miserable and do stuff you don’t like. Don’t listen to that. If there’s nothing the game offers that you enjoy, don’t play it. In fact, you already seem to be doing that.

There are, in fact, people who have fun playing games focusing on efficiency. If you’re not, then don’t do that.

You don’t need to play the game like that. That kind of rare loot isn’t required to complete any content in the game except maybe for post-endgame stuff. In fact, a lot of that stuff requires a character that is already capable of doing content to be farmed in the first place. You don’t need Enigma. You don’t need a Shako (in fact, I think that item is quite overrated). I do have my reservations with post 1.09 D2 but they never made it harder for anyone to complete the game in all 3 difficulties with any character class. “Budget” stuff is already enough, those rare items only make it much easier and faster.

Understandable, have a great day.

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how could i if gamesaren’t supposed to be fun?

no. they weren’t. you can double check by the reactions in this very same forums.

i’ve played the same diablo, stret fighter, kof, mortal kombat, tekken, borderlands, tetris, mario and zelda titles for the last 25+years, and iplay them all for fun, why wouldn’t that question be valid if someone doesn’t play for fun, it’s still the same stale games.

my question to the people you say is pestered is still valdid, with even more sense if they’ve played something for 20 years without having fun.

i honestly no longer know what a game is.

and that’s why i asked if that’s the case.

again, if you are having fun, why state that thing you do is not fun and it shouldnt be fun?

then why gate the game behind a “you either devote your life to the game or gtfo” to people who want to play the game for fun?

i honestly don’t like how “proper gaming” is required now

i was watching a stream on how to properly play street fighter 2. the guy says you first have to learn all the projectiles, supers and uppercuts first. when i asked live about how you do that with zangief, he said “qfc+p, f00king casual” and then proceeded to make fun of the comment, i asked if he could choose angief and show me, i wanted th guy to realize zangief doesn’t have a super, a projectile or an uppercut in sf2 but he just dismissed with “if you don’t know the character don’t play it”

i won two national tournaments with zangief when champion edition launched. figures. i guess im not playing the game “properly”

And we already responded it’s not.

The people who are doing that are dumb and you shouldn’t pay attention to them. The game is very accessible and you should only play it for fun.

I wasn’t referring to you in that particular response. You’re good

We’re going in circles here. What we’ve been trying to say the whole time is that you should only do what you think is fun.

my point with the question was tobring forward the fact that games are supposed to be fun.

people gate fun in the formus with a myriad of concepts.

people who don’t do “endgame” stuff on D2 are wrong. you are only allowed to be hardcrore lv99 or gtfo.

people who play D3 for fun are wrong. you shouln’t play D3 for any reason.

people who play minecraft are wrong. you shouldplay anythingbesides.

people who uses blender are wrong. you should use 3dmax or gtfo

people who listen to billie eylish are wrong. beatles it the only “music” allowed


But what kind of reply do you want to hear then? Do you want us to say they were right and you really should only be playing the game a certain way?

Or are you just venting?

You are writing this in a very confusing way and it’s hard to tell what exactly you want to know

One thing I’ll say is that most people I know who play D2 do not think like that.

There’s always gonna be someone who thinks different. You shouldn’t listen to anyone who tries to tell you how you should play a videogame.

One thing I’ll say is that most people in the forums gating who can play D2 think like that.

none of my friends that used to play D2 backin the day are interested on games anymore. figures.