Popular setup on top PTR clears are using Furious Charge - Cold Rush and Ground Stomp - Wrenching Smash and Burning Axe. 132 clear is using CoE over Unity and probably doing a good job cherry picking his fights (I am fishing absolutely nothing, including mobs, to get a feel for EVERYTHING).
I still think EF’s double damage bonus is > Burning Axe, we’ll see.
With this new info. Changed the build and wow much better.
Skills
BR/BS, WC/VW, TS/Falter, WotB/insanity, FC/MA, F/maniac
EF/oathkeepr
Wearing aquillas and UC
endless walk/BoM
cube bastions/DD/rrog
Gems: simplicity 112, trapped 126, stricken 126
Bloodshed/AD makes a huge difference. Did 110 in about 7 min. 19k strength, no augs no ancients except weps. My tougness was also much better with aquillas and VW. You can clear the surrounding trash pretty easily with BS/AD while focusing the elite.
I still think you would want to have IP for pushes for the CC immunity. It can be a pain and I think for HC probably necessary. The down time on WotB is just too much. Getting frozen, jailed can mean certain death.
Taking off the terrify and just relying on EF is much better since the trash will die while focusing the elite.
Shaping up nicely. I’m sure some refined builds will come out of this soon, but what I listed above is a pretty good place to start. You could also do double unity instead of aquillas.
Plays pretty well now knowing that AD/BS work. Not sure it’s what they envisioned though, I imagine they were expecting people to take terrify on TS, but I don’t think that is going to be an optimum route.
Good to hear.
In other news: Testing is delayed for me. I’m missing major pieces of gear, have almost no crafting mats, and need to completely re-level a Simplicity’s.
Sigh.
I wish PTR environments let you dial up various items and resources. Having to slog through rifts for a while just to then go on PTR and roll the dice with loot bags is friggin’ annoying.
Using Shark’s setup I breezed through a 115 in just over 11 minutes. My simplicity is only level 40. This has some real potential. I should also note it was an imperfect rift with one real bad floor and some iffy affixes and I still only died once.
This makes me wonder if for s20 we don’t cube RORG we just cube Bastion/DD/Aquila with the season’s buff. Seems alright.
First impressions of this set are still medium. I really like the idea and the aesthetic (think they nailed the art for the actual set pieces A+) but it needs some fine tuning mostly in the survival department and maybe some small number adjustments though someone like Rage who’s way better at Barb math than me can give estimates.
Keep testing and keep giving feedback though, we’ll get this set there. I have faith.
Limited testing for me tonight but trying out Rage’s setup and did a 110 in 11:37 for the first time ever playing a frenzy build. I think using charge to get into Occulus rings definitely helps. Now I was using Vambraces of Sescheron and that kept me alive I think and popped WoTB on elites. I think a little more DR and a little more DPS it’ll be pretty good.
Can’t test the prt since I’m in Asia and PTR ping is a million.
But things seem pretty solid. Hope that Rage and Free or anyone else can come up with an optimal build soon so I can copy and modify to fit my play style in live server, especially with the hlong down time in WotB may be you can choose another bracer. Hope that it can somehow compete with WWRend.
Do you guys have a stream or video or something I can watch you play? Thanks.
I’ll have a video of 128-130s coming up tomorrow, hopefully. Plus what I think is good for the build and what alternatives can be utilized.
I know this won’t be a popular suggestion, but what if Invigorating Gemstone gets a buff (this way we could have gain Immunity to all control-impairing) and they increase the DR & DPS in the set.
Thoughts: Veteran’s warning jumped to 60% dodge…how does hardened Wrath compare in increasing damage reduction with the H90 two piece?
Breaking away from WotB May be a bitter truth with no real spenders being used, but if aiming to keep it, CDR on all possibles slots may be preferable (maybe even with in-geoms, but that is a roll of the dice on the maps). Seeing as you’re stacking cdr that high, that leads me to believe Hardened wrath may server as a replacement to a DR source.
The question then is getting 70-75% cdr. Crimsons May suit (with a minor DR boost from paragon & set RCR), but unsure.
After I see the gameplay, I must say it doesn’t look impresive. Just hold down Frenzy button and cast shout once in a while. We could add a bit more depth to the set by adding Overpower.
They could have retooled IK hota/lod hota which would have been better. It is literally the same set just one is a spender and one is a generator. They play exactly the same except frenzy acts like its had 4 red bulls. It doesn’t actually seem to hit harder overall then IK Hota either until you get a solo elite and is so much squishier. This must get a very large buff or changes to make up for the squishiness. It has to actually hit harder then WWRend by a good margin or nobody will ever play it. WWrend does t16 better/low speed better/mid speeds better/push better/and is enjoyable. Frenzy is a nightmare trying to chase stuff around all while getting almost one shot the entire time. Juggernauts are a pass. Illusionists are a pass. Any elite with 4-5 trash around it is a loss on time.
The Devs should have used Weapon Throw.
In fact, they should have made this set a generator + overpower set. That way we can have a wide variety of builds. I like cleave but that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
Anyway let’s keep everything simple and clear rifts by pressing a button or two.
Ok, here are my results in testing H90 so far. I’m highlighting a few of the most important points in bold.
H90 2-piece does appear to double the rune effect of most of the important shouts properly.
TS: Terrify + Demoralize are both double duration. Falter’s dibs bonus is doubled.
WC: Veteran’s Warning gives 60% dodge. Impunity resistance buff is increased to 40%. For some reason, it seems to be a little screwy with Hardened Wrath. The base effect of WC is doubled from +20% armor to +40%, but the “extra 60% for 5 seconds” that is the rune effect is for some reason giving +100% of your initial armor. I think you’d expect to see either +120% (.60 + .60) or +156% (1.6 * 1.6), so I’m not sure what’s going on there. My actual numbers (with, btw, paragon armor% at 0) were 8886 armor before shout, 21326 for 5 seconds, and 12440 after that.
For Battle Rage, the base effect is doubled - +20% dibs and +6% CHC. (30% dibs for Marauder’s). Bloodshed damage is doubled-- 40% of recent critical hits. Into the Fray gives 2% chc per nearby mob. Ferocity move speed is doubled to 30%.
Swords to Ploughshares healing is doubled as well.
In addition, the “chaining” effect definitely procs both Bloodshed and Swords to Ploughshares. For Bloodshed, the result (assuming you’ve got optimal CHC + CHD rolls) is that Bloodshed procs deal about 37% of the total damage you’ve dealt via Frenzy, as an aoe. Pretty good. This amount is unchanged no matter the density you’re fighting in, since Frenzy deals the same overall damage, whether that’s focused on 1 mob or spread between 30 mobs.
STP seems bugged. Not only is its effect doubled by the 2-piece, but it can also trigger once for every crit scored by the Bastion’s “chain”. Furthermore, somehow it is getting doubled again. For instance, StP, discounted to 75% effectiveness for Frenzy’s .75 proc rate, should heal 16092 per crit. But, I was healing 32k per crit, twice (two different green numbers, each 32k, for 64k total). So there’s an extra doubling happening somehow. When you get into density, you can heal hundreds of thousands of life with one hit.
I’m pretty sure the chained Frenzy also procs AD, although not 100% sure-- even going through my footage frame by frame, it is tough to separate out a non-crit hit from the “chain”, from an AD proc. Ultimately, though, I did see some white damage numbers popping up on enemies not hit by the chain, and at the correct proportion for AD based on a nearby damage number. (i.e. Mob 1 gets hit by the chain, takes 100m damage, Mob 2 doesn’t get hit by the chain but takes 68m white damage. I had 68% AD.) Let’s call it “95% certainty”.
The Bastion’s chains roll independently for crit on every enemy. I think how it works is that if you have 10 stacks, the game says to itself “ok, that’s 11 hits”, calculates the “base” damage for this, divides this up between the number of targets, and then rolls independently for each one to see if it’s a crit. So if you are attacking a big group of enemies, some of them will most likely be hit by a crit, and some by a non-crit.
I’m not sure that the chain effect has an animation for every single Frenzy hit- I think it’s a bit like Bloodshed, in that it “keeps track” of the damage for a bit, and then dumps it all at once. The period is much shorter for the chains than for Bloodshed (way less than 1 second) but I don’t think it’s as frequent as the 5-6 times per second I was hitting with Frenzy. This may be why, despite fighting in pretty high density in the GRs I played, there was not much lag, despite the game obviously needing to calculate Bloodshed as well as (probably) AD. Not 100% sure about this animation thing, but the major takeaway here, as far as I can see, anyway, is “no game-crushing lag”.
Stricken stacks at the rate I expected it to (the Frenzy attack rate). I ran a test using some low-level crafted weapons that gave me a 13 frame Frenzy. I tested initial conditions with Rend damage, hit my test subject for a minute with Frenzy, then Rended again, and the damage afterwards showed Stricken stacking at the Frenzy attack rate (i.e. you are not getting extra Stricken stacks from Bastion’s). One thing I still ought to check is a similar test on 2 enemies, because I suppose it’s possible that when the chain animates, it could apply an extra Stricken stack. Unlikely, I think, but somebody should make sure.
As for the Fear bonus, well, as I’m sure you all know it is a bit hard to deploy properly. If you want to do damage to a group of mobs, you need a second source of hard cc with a long duration. The 1.5 second stun from smite is inadequate, as soon as you pop terrify, the guy de-stuns and runs away.
I tested with Ground Stomp and FC: Cold Rush, and in both cases, they work much better if you freeze/Stun the mobs and then pop fear. If you do it the other way around, the freeze/stun will sometimes not stop the mobs from running away.
Finally, I did check to see if the 6 piece might be increasing thorns damage, even though it’s not written anywhere in the set. It does not appear to be. So: no thorns, just straight-up Frenzy.
That’s it for now. Sorry for the wall of text!
I concur on the Thorns, only benefit it gets is the increased number of hits, the damage itself isn’t boosted. I struggled to finish a GR 90.
Some testings with LON ?
Right, this make sense. But 3-5s is too short. Make it 10s.
I’m going to revise these numbers a little, since we are now pretty sure that Bloodshed and AD are in the mix.
I’ll have to think about what the optimal AD% really is, since it’ll be competing with CHD, CHC, and CDR in a lot of places. It will for sure be good in Paragon, on your Oathkeeper (Dmg% - AD - CDR), and on your shoulders. Getting AS on your gloves takes you from a 10 frame Frenzy to a 9 frame, which is an 11% damage increase, and also helps you stack Stricken and heal. So I think AS could outweigh AD there.
Anyway, let’s assume you’ll have 50% AD in paragon, 20% shoulders, 24% Oathkeeper, and one other 20% roll somewhere. That’s 114% AD.
If you’re maxed out on CHC + CHD, you’ll have 60% CHC (not counting WOTB), and +610% CHD. With these numbers, 91.4% of your total damage comes from crits. Bloodshed “repeats” 40% of these. 91.4 * 0.4 = 36.56. So, Bloodshed deals 36.56% of the damage you deal with Frenzy as an AOE, around you.
Because your Frenzy always deals the same total damage no matter how many enemies you hit, the numbers Bloodshed are essentially fixed.
Assume that 1 Frenzy hit does 100 damage, and that you’ve got 10 stacks of Frenzy.
Frenzy does 1100 damage, spread between however many enemies are within 15 yards, with the first enemy hit taking at least 1/11th (9.09%) of that damage.
Bloodshed does 1100 * .3656 = 402 damage, to all enemies within 20 yards.
AD is a little irregular because of the way the chained damage is spread out and the fact that enemies can’t deal AD to themselves. If you hit 1 mob, obviously there’s no AD. With 2 mobs, the first will take 600 Frenzy damage and thus deal an average of (600 * 1.14 * 0.2 = 137 damage) while the second mob will take 500 Frenzy damage and deal (500 * 1.14 * 0.2 = 114 damage).
As the number of mobs increases towards infinity, you get closer and closer to a situation where mobs 2 - infinity take the full AD amount, which is (1100 * 1.14 * 0.2 = 251 damage), and mob 1 takes the AD amount minus 9.09% (228 damage)
So damage totals are:
Frenzy: 11x / 1100 total damage, possibly spread around a bit.
Bloodshed: 4.02x / 402 damage, to all enemies within 20 yards.
AD: 2.51x / 251 damage, spread around a bit, for any # of targets above 1.
Focused Feedback thread is live in PTR Forums.
Folks, try to collate your feedback there. Whenever possible, include videos!
Rage do you happen to have an updated BIS stats for each item? Or is the same d3planner you referenced before?