At what paragon do most tals meteor start using f&r
Never? No guide seem to advice using F&R. Not to mention common sense.
Using F&R means giving up Halo of Karini which is a colossal toughness loss. I seriously doubt any amount of paragon can compensate that. You also lose CoE, an average of 50% damage boost.
Not worth it.
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In a good group, switch whenever you like. Your teammates’ buffs give more toughness than Halo of Karini.
I personally haven’t tried yet in solo. How good are you at killing things in an instant and not getting hit?
At ~6000 paragon, I guess.
#1 on EU wiz ladder uses Bastions of Will. Still seems it may be painful and annoying, requires a lot of fishing and good control.
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4-6k paragon i seems, in practice. Whether that’s where it’s actually viable, or that’s where wizards get bored and want a different build to switch it up, not sure. 
I think it’s the way to go when fishing for leader board clears, so you’ll see it on leader baords, but from what little I’ve seen (at just below 4k), it’s really not worth it for XP farm. It’s such a small damage increase (50% damage increase on average over coe), but at the cost of frequently dropping squirts, dying, having to kite or stutter step around to not die/lose squirts, not being able to stay in oculus or overlapping rings as much, as well as drop meteor casts for a generator to keep the buff up. For a 50% damage increase. I think the cost is higher than the gain on average, unless you have the right mob type and great support.
Idk, maybe I’m missing something, maybe the extra toughness and clear speed at 6k makes a difference, but from what I’ve seen and tried, I’m not convinced.
In group play you can switch when you and your group is good enough to play it. I only tested at around para 4k. Works with good groups but not with bad groups. I think I could have switched at para 3k already in 3 support group with a good barb.
Wiz need to focus to game much more than with Karini, which is actually quite nice in this too easy season. For example I get 1-shotted by grotesque explosions which makes life much more interesting.
I solo seems to me there’s probably no such limit where I could do the swap. I can play it at ~2-3min runs effectively in case mob type is good. I imagine I could do it in 150s earliest at para 7-8k with very fished map+mobs, but I don’t like fishing that much and definitely I’m not going to get to 7-8k para.
Or if they are a bit of a masochist. Look at DiEoxidE pushing Typhon’s this season around 3k without Karini. Just don’t get hit… easy, right? Don’t need Karini if you never get hit taps forehead
Or if we’re talking runs down around 2 min with Tal’s… just get an early shield pylon and cruise through the rest of the rift?
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Heh before my video card decided it can only run for 20 or so minutes before going to >10 fps (rip season) I got to 137 with 1.5k gons and not all optimal gearing with F&R version of Typhons, which wasn’t much lower than my Tal’s was at the time (140 I think?) so it’s tough as hell with Altar so was theorizing on PTR it could go all the way, but yeah obviously quite masochistic compared to Tals with a Karini. Was even using it for mid speeds till the insanely efficient In-Geom Tal’s version took off.
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I just tried this out – at paragon 3k – as a solo player
I’m legit faster at 135s
I’m a little faster at 140s
At 149 the gameplay sucks because you have to dodge too much and lose time. You’ve basically fallen off an efficiency cliff. I’m guessing the cliff was around 143 given the amount of VIT I allocated in paragon.
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Finally became comfortable using this setup in groups tonight. Figure the tipping point is around 110 million un-buffed toughness, but if you’re better than me at finding safe little pockets to stand in during wartime then maybe a little earlier for you.
To me depends really much on the other members of group too, especially the zbarb.
If group keeps mobs under control and makes sure wiz can kill them fast → much less toughness needed and can even stand short times in circles in the middle of all the mess.
Can’t remember my ubbuffed toughness right now, but it’s really low with almost zero defence rolls and no paragon in vitality. All regular and legendary gems for attack, no defence. 2 passive skills for shields. (Edit: Got 56M base toughness now)
With bad group it’s not very nice to play. With good group it’s quite a pleasure with all the challenges and also 2x faster.