Firebird + fire skills

Wizard
1

Hi,

so now we have this revised set and it’s obviously better than ever. Thing is, we are now more or less forced into Spectral Blades: Flame Blades, be it directly or by proxy through the Mirror Image variant. No other fire skill can currently compete. Explosive Blast: Chain Reaction is but a means to get the Orb of Infinite Depth DMG and DR bonus.

Is this really it? I mean we have so many fire related skills but the devs made sure we can’t use some of them (AT: Flame Ward or Hydra: Mammoth to name some) while the ones that work are just not viable in comparison.

What do you think would be necessary to change this?

One thing I can imagine being good is letting extra blasts from Wand of Woh trigger Firebird. Paired with ORotZ on a high CDR build this should surely dish out decent damage.

Another idea would be to make the other fire based signature skills work since they can benefit from the same item combinations as Spectral Blade and would also allow high speed spamming. But I guess they also need some item support to make them useful.

For other spenders like Hydra, Arcane Orb or Meteor I have little hope thanks to how they work and the legendaries we have right now. Meteor Molten Impact and Black Hole Blazar are pretty much out due to their cooldowns, and Hydra’s fire runes don’t even work, so it’s only the unruned version. Arcane Orb: Scorch… urgh.

Meteor Shower might work, but you need to cast it yourself - compared to a non-spender like Spectral Blades, this is a huge disadvantage. We would need something huge to counter this, like droping additional Meteors over a larger area and at lower costs… but still, it would be an issue that Spectral Blade can hit so often compared to Meteor. So it might even be necessary to scale the skill damage with combustion stacks to some degree. Not a full multiplier, but maybe “Arcane Power spending fire skills gain XX% extra damage per stack of Combustion.” or something.

Fire Twister might work, the issue here is the unpredictable path of the Twister and that the Wicked Wind rune is out by default (since it’s Arcane). If Ranslor could pull elites and grant Wicked Wind, it might become an option, idk if that would be enough already. I guess no, we might need something that scales with attack speed or strikes a large area at once.

Let’s hear your thoughts…

3 Likes
2

It would most certainly be a welcome change if more fire spells became more effective.

There are some issues to take into consideration, like that some fire spells are AoE’s ex. Blizzard-Apocalypse. As a spell it has a very nice area of effect and would be an awsome spell. AoE’s have a tendency not to hit “all” the time and that is what the proc rate regulates, so how the devs solve this I don’t know but I don’t see any reason such a spell shouldn’t work with FB.

The funny thing is that should we get more spells to work we would be able to see a larger variaty of builds and this set may become a true all purpose set.

Other than that I have suggested some legendary powers to help out Flameblades by giving them an AoE effect by allowing to hit all around the caster or in a coneshaped area in front of the caster.

Cheers, I too would like to see ideas and opinions from the rest.

3

Main issue is that as it is the set is about applying the 6pc bonus. That’s how we get our damage. It being limited to fire skills is flavor. So we need skills that apply the bonus at a high rate (flame blades), at a high multiplier (MI with Deathwish).

To benefit slower skills, maybe adding a bonus that says “non-signature fire skills that you cast use 5 stacks to deal [x multiplier of 6pc bonus] damage”. Now casting meteor from the skill bar wouldn’t feel as bad and there’s a penalty for the increase in damage.

I’d also just allow disintegrate to be able to use at least half of the 6pc bonus. Speeds would be nutty fast with that.

4

Regarding other signature skills… I guess we need more/new/updated items. For a melee variant I can imagine something like this:

Tesla Sphere (new source, looks like a small ball lightning)
Shock Pulse releases [XX] additional bolts, attacks 50% faster and strikes in all directions. This effect only applies to bolt based runes. Your Arcane, Cold and Fire skills can now cause Paralysis.

1 Like
5

Hi Lexa

I can understand, that there is the Wish to broaden the Variety for the Set :slight_smile:
But reading your Post it seems you are a bit too quick on some of the Topics


Arcane Torrent :
This Skill was ruled out right frome the Start.
Not only did Blizzard choose Desintegration to apply the Debuff, but also designed the 6P so, that this Skill explicitly can´t be used.
After all.
AT was, is and will ever be a absulut Powerhouse, when it comes to a channeling Build.

So i doub that they will enable it.


As for Hydra :
The unruned Version works
But you can get into trouble, really quick, if you have to adjust anything around this Skill.

Thyphon as well as Lod/LoN uses both this Skill.
So everytime you have to adjust something around this Skill, you always have to keep in Mind, that there are other Sets, who can become completly useless or OP, after an Adjustment.

If you base the whole Firebird around this one Skill, you have the same Probles as now.
Not enough Variety and on Top of it, it would also compete with the two other Playstyles, who are centered around this Skill.

It would be also quite boring to have 3 Sets / Builds, that are centered around one Playstyle.
Just look at the Monk where you have Wave of Light with Innas, LoN/LoD and SWK :man_facepalming:
Its just bad Design


Meteor, Wave of Force and Blizzard :slight_smile:

First, they Proc the Set :+1:
But the downside is, that they are unreliable and slow.
With Blizzard you need to have Luck to even hit something.
Meteor does have a high AoE, but they are extremly slow !
And Wave of Force has just such a terrible long Castanimation … :nauseated_face:

Keep in Mind, that each of your four MI attacks with each Strike 3 Times and this in an AoE-Radius.

It is not that the Skills dont proc the Set, that no one uses them.
It is, because they are to slow.


Same goes here :slight_smile:

They work :+1:
They just dont hit as fast and as many Targets, as the Blades


As well :slight_smile:
The main Problem with the Set is, that you need to hit your Target(s) as fast as possible to proc it.
And this is a real Dilemma.


You could change it, so that it increases the Dmg-Bonus of the 6P whenever you attk an ignited Enemy, wich is than multi. with your 4P …
(Wich would lead to the Point, that most Players would choose the highest Dmg Spell available - wich would mean no Fire Spell )
So either Meteor
Or once more again, that the People will Run as Chantodo - Archon - Fire Bird


The other Solution would be, to bound it to a specifiv Skill, like Blizzard-Apocalypse.
But this is exacly what you dont want ^^
You woul like to have more Variety - wich would be gone with this.


Sorry for the long Post, here is a :potato:



Good Loot ; Have Fun - See ya in Hell

Balbero

6

I know about all of this, mate… you don’t have to tell me.

Firebird needs a high attack rate skill that hits a reasonably large area. And wizards simply do not have that at all right now, unless we talk about the signature skills… and among those only Spectral Blades is usable right now. I’m not saying I want Meteor or Hydra or Arcane Torrent to work, just saying. Some were disabled for a reason, others just don’t fit in because of their mechanics. Doesn’t make things better, but anyways yeah.

What I don’t know is a way to circumvent Spectral Blades: Flame Blades being the one only viable skill and that’s what I want to discuss. Ideas on how to make other skills work. Well, there would be the option to ditch the “procs don’t proc procs” dogma…

7

As sayed.

As far as I can see it, there are two Solutions.
Either bind the 6P to a specific Skill.

Or you change the 6P more into the “Norm” how other Sets behave.
This would mean, that not the 2P is proced everytime you Hit the Enemy, but that your Dmg is scaled around your 6P Bonus, each time you hit a ignited Enemy.

Might sound similar, but the difference is - How fast you can Hit them vs. How hard you can hit them

8

The only fire skill I found useful besides the meta is Force Push, which is ONLY good with mirror images. If you had the CC, it easily rivals Frost Nova. EB Would be the go-to if WoW would work with it, most likely anyway. Flame Blades from you with max IAS is maybe half the speed, possibly a bit more, then MI? Meteor is too slow. Twister procs maybe 10% of the time, no rune hydra doesn’t proc enough/fast enough.

Arcane Orb seldom triggers, even trying to make it proc on the explosion doesn’t work. It will proc when it feels like it. Blizzard doesn’t proc at all, if it does it’s not something I noticed. Electrify is super good at low levels but falls off super fast. Magic Missle is whatever. The other one I don’t think I tried and doubt it’s worth using. Blazar works but obviously the cooldown is way too long to be useful, not to mention it takes a while before doing any damage at all.

I’m sure I forgot a few, but basically there’s only 4 useful skills, technically 1 if you’re not using MI.

9

Well, I actually don’t really dislike the idea behind Firebird and that it’s not tied to a specific skill and respective damage buffs. That’s the part I’d like to keep. Tying the set to a single skill is not what I would want. I mean, we have that on the upper end right now, more or less.
As for what you wrote… fast vs. hard… yeah, exactly that. I mean, they could very well have two mechanics on the FB6… one for fast skills, and another one for our slow hitters. Anyhow it would be necessariy to introduce/update some items to make that work in the end.

10

I really like this Idea too :slight_smile:

But sadly we have some Problems out there, for nearly as long as RoS rolled out.
And thats Items wich buff cairtain Skills.

Would we only go for Fire related Skill, Meteor and Hydra with all theyr Multilpiers would be set.
There is no Way around them, because of them.
But to balance around this, you also have to keep in Mind, that Typhon as well as Tal Rascha and LoN/LoD havely releay on this Skills and theyr Items, such as Nilfurs


So what do you do, to make this Items less interesting and compiling?
Right.
You change the Set in a Way, that not the Burstdamage is the Mainfactor, but how fast you can hit them.
Wich lead to the Point where we are now :X

11

Honestly, I’m fine with the way the set is right now. I’d just buff up flame blades through items a bit and make MI less derpy. Let Disintegrate take advantage of the 6pc some way, and give teleport max cooldown at any stack level.

With those changes I’d say it’s in a good spot. Other fire skills could be pushed off to LoD by buffing a couple key items, I think.

1 Like
12

Going to jump in to remind everyone that the flame rune for blizzard doesn’t proc firebirds even once, would be nice if if could proc it every 0.5 sec or something. Items like wand of woh or mirrorball should also be allowed to proc it.

As for disintegrate they should give sloraks madness a 1200% bonus to disintegrate and change or rebalance deathwish since it’s always forced into every build some how and ends up working in some unintended way. Wizard needs a total rebalance to all skills especially outdated ones like teleport with a ridiculous 11 second cooldown. Even with 50% cooldown its still slower than the default cooldown on bloodrush and wizard doesn’t even need to stack cooldown in a lot of builds (Hydra, frozen orb, twister to name a few)

2 Likes
13

It does proc it.

It only procs on a direct Hit.
Wich is why it is so bad.

Procs dont proc Procs !!!

This is a Fundamental, as that Life on Hit generates your HP instead of your Schwatrz-Resouce.
This is no “The Live of Brain”

NOPE !

Thats an Issue wich was layed down Years ago.
You can´t change it now, only correct if needed, because it is already too integreated.

In the End every Class would need it.
Esp all the Pasiv would need an compleatly overhowl.

Wich is more than OK !!!
Since Vanilla, you not only have a redicluless Ammount of CDR, but also Items like Occulus or Aether Walker to reduce the CD of this Skill.
Dont get to greedy !!!

15

This is called Class Diversity

While one Class has his upperhand to be more agile, the other one might dish out more Damage or can recive it.


The Question ist … why do you really talk to me Arct, if you dont have a Question ?
Or do you wanne show everyone again, how stupid you are ?

Or do you like to prove every one here, that you have no clue what you are talking about, over and over and over, again ???

16

You really like to “hear yourself talk” don’t you? You say stuff that simply supports what you say, which is essentially dumb. They wouldn’t have made a set dedicated to removing the cooldown if it wasn’t broken. If you couldn’t put that together, then who’s the one who doesn’t know what they are talking about? There’s a reason people don’t like you. You’re extremely rude and unintelligible.

1 Like
17

Sorry Dude.
But everything I say is based on Facts, that everyone can check :slight_smile: :sunflower:

Seems you are the one

No wonder XD
I´m an As.shole !!!
But at least I ´m nearly always on Point

Joa.
But this is only because you cant apprehend the Topic´s but think you would be some “special Person” who got a “great” Idea :nauseated_face:

18

The set specifically excludes DoTs from activating Fb6. Probably to avoid yet another set based around Mammoth Hydra. Unruned Hydra is not a DoT - which is why it works.

The only spell that I can think of that would work is Explosive Blast with Wand of Woh - CR. That’s the only multi-hit Fire spell that is not a channel or a DoT, other than Meteor Shower.

You could, in theory, let it proc from CR (is it 9 or 12 hits? I seem to remember it was only 9) but I don’t know how to do that math. I think Mirror Images hits…is it 17?..times over it’s cooldown, and Explosive Blast would hit 9 (or 12) times over it’s cooldown. You’d have to average out the hits per cooldown and see whether it’s a buff or not. You could probably ignore the procs dont proc procs ruleset here without too much trouble. It’s designed to prevent endless loops, which don’t apply here.

This wouldn’t work at all. It wouldn’t apply FB often enough.

honestly, the easiest way would probably allow it to proc from DoTs, uncouple it from Mirror images (which is just bad design) and just reword the set to exclude channeling spells and Hydra (all runes).

But this will likely never happen, it’s yet ANOTHER firebird work, which is probably the most reworked set in the game already.

On the bright side, if they can't fix the MI sound bug, they might HAVE to rework it. Their pain would amuse me, because my carpal tunnel from Vyrs RSI seemed to amuse them :P
1 Like
19

As far as EB is concerned, you also need to add in something like Striken. It’s 12 hits with Woh and 9 of those hits dont do extra damage from the dot. If it did, zodiac would probably trump CoE to be perfectly honest. At this point, the biggest issue would be your arcane power, so you’d need to use 1-2 skills to mitigate that.

EDIT you could technically still use MI to restore arcane power.

20

as far as I know, EB- CR can only proc FB6 once, not even four times. You could easily change Enforcer to Stricken; I’m not too worried about that.

Yes, if EB-CR could proc FB6, the default would be Obsidian over CoE. I wouldn’t be too worried about Arcane Power, either.

21

idk if you mistyped, but EB does proc FB6, I believe all the hits from CR do, just the added ones from Woh do not. One of the biggest issues is getting a Woh in the build. You have to lose either the Deathwish or the orb of depth. I’ve also used this without a way of recovering Arcane Power, I would run out pretty fast. IIRC. I haven’t really used my wiz in a few weeks. That is only having apoc on my offhand.

1 Like