I thought that was the worst stat in D2, always hated that mechanic. As far as itemization is concerned, it feels like you’re starting with a handicap and need a stat to remove it.
PoE carried this aswell but fortunately there are many ways to completely negate it.
There way a way to negate it to in Diablo, the suffix Faster hit recovery negated it. Did not take a real high number to get reasonably resistant to it.
yea i meant, fhr
sure if they got CC skills, they can CC you
but most of the time you could just hit them
getting pulled and ported was the most annoying thing xD
It could be negated in D2 as well… I.E the thread topic Faster Hit recovery. You are right though you were definitely starting with a handicap. This was the point of it though to make combat a bit harder and add something to itemization in that negating it was of value.
The only times I died in D2 was due to Hit Recovery… D3 doesn’t have it, I don’t die… it adds most of the difficulty
This claim means very little without knowing when you played and on what difficulty.
I can claim that I played Diablo 2 recently and didn’t die even with stagger, which sounds a lot less impressive when it’s also noted that I’ve only beaten the game on Normal so far with that character and not Nightmare or Hell.
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I agree I think FHR is an affix that actually has real value that they should add into the affix pool.
FHR adds strategy to engagements especially depending on your character/class. If you’re a heavy melee class you’ll need more FHR but if you’re a caster you can afford to not have FHR unless you’re engaging other ranged monsters but that is the component that makes FHR a good strategic element to affixes/itemization.
It also adds strategy to monsters themselves, where they can have fast hitting monsters but do small amounts of damage, however their danger is of course locking you into recovery while a big monster slowly approaches for a big hit.
I don’t think it’s too complicated either. All they have to do is add a friendly user interface bar that shows the FHR regeneration, sort of like how you can see the stamina bar in D2 refill.
This isn’t really true because it can depend on monster design. Fast running monsters or ranged monsters can easily get to ranged classes. If ranged classes are really trying to cheat and get away wtih not having good FHR, one mistake and they’re screwed. It’s fine though, its part of the decision making where if they want to be a glass cannon because the player wants to use their skill to compensate that is good game design.
I think it hurts immersion to not have FHR mechanic and it adds a necessary element of danger to engagements.
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Unless they do something fairly different with it compared to how it works in Diablo 2, it’s going to be a complicated and math heavy stat.
It’s also going to mean that the stat is more beneficial to people with higher framerates, assuming that they don’t lock the framerate in Diablo 4(and they shouldn’t).
Well, in D3 I was never close to dying on the hardest possible difficulty while playing the campaign, always using the gear which gave me the most damage and always “equipping” new skills after each level.
In D2, PoE, Titan Quest and so on, you will have a lot of trouble to beat the game if you run through without thinking like that.
Given RoS’ insane power creep and D3 vanilla’s penchant for 1 shotting players to the point where we were forced to rely on damage immunity to beat the game, I’d find it hard to believe you were on the game’s actual hardest difficulty.
Diablo 3 is many things, but it has never been a game where the highest difficulty didn’t pump out a lot of damage when you were hit.
I should also note that character I’ve been playing Diablo 2 on is a trap Assassin I’ve been literally standing in packs of mobs while I throw up my traps and being perfectly fine. Even going into Nightmare, it’s not a problem.
People here love overstating Diablo 2’s difficulty and understating Diablo 3’s difficulty.
I’m not talking about the endgame of D3, but the way to get there. I just played it a few months ago and it was ridiculously easy on the hardest difficulty. In vanilla it was easy too, until you came to inferno, where you got your first real challenge, which was super hard, but not rewarding.
In D2 the trap assassin is very strong and if you do not spend a thought on your gear or skills, you will not make it to nightmare, because you miss skilled her already in act1.
I’m already on Nightmare on my Assassin and doing just fine. All I did in my skills is take everything that buffed Lightning Trap’s damage.
Literally the only thing I’m going to have to change up is I’ll need something to address Lightning Immune on monsters.
Again, people overstate how hard Diablo 2 actually is. It is not a difficult game if you have even a basic understand of how RPGs work.
Well, then maybe you are just better than me in D2 
I also played it a few weeks ago with a blizzard sorc and got stuck in Hell Chaos sanctuary. If I had had more time, of course I would have beaten it, but it was really hard and that’s actually cool to have IMO.
RNG procs are super terrible design, no ofense, hit % chance, block % chance, dodge % chance is BS. Like, those are just “things” you put on your gear and all-the-way passives, you really like those things ?
I also can see the “laser show” not being something people would like but matter of facts is that D3 did better when it comes to mob affixes… Like, A LOT better, if anything these:
- Chance to hit
- Chance to block
- Chance to dodge
- Auras
- almost/insta Mana-Burn per hit
- Non-telegraphed Mob-affix hits (curse, frozen, thunderstorm proc)
- Potion chugging
Are the EXACT things I’d definitely NOT want return from D2 and ultimately probably the reason why they had to include/introduce rejuvination potions as well. So yes, any deviation ouf of those things is welcomed as far as I’m concerned even if the game ends up being slightly “not conventional to the genre” as a result honestly
They’re not exactly procs but yeah, I like having those things. Dice rolls that introduce a random element is a core part of RPG design.
They also offer ways of having defensive and offensive stats that aren’t just a further inflating of your numbers, and creates an actual trade-off(unlike FHR) between damage and hit rate. You generally want some attack rating, but just how much you want vs how much more damage you want to stack is up to you.
Right now most of the offensive affixes boil down to “you hit harder”, which is honestly kind of boring.
Mmm, I have to again kind of respectfully disagree. The one differentiating factor here for me is that they are kind of difficult in different ways.
Diablo 3, at the top end of challenging timers on rifts is more difficult. Playing through the game Diablo 3 is incredibly much easier.
I am a fan of both games and even up until ( pretty much now) with the new ladders I play hardcore on both. I am just saying as I have on other threads I can very casually play hardcore on Diablo 3, toss it on expert/master, use the gear I collect in game and get up to 70 in like ( A few hours) and not really risk dying while collecting massive monster kill streaks.
I mean afterwards if I start tossing it on higher torments without collecting great gear first the power creep could get me killed but that’s all really.
Diablo 2 there are a lot of ways to die especially on hell if you are actually playing through the game and not getting rushed. Just this ladder season after the reset playing through with all the people that like to stream and all that nonsense people drop like flies even when they are taking the game too seriously and trying really hard to get up there first.
There are plenty of ways to die, but having a few deaths doesn’t really mean the game is incredibly hard.
My statement is more about that some people around here like to act like Diablo 2 is this super hard game where you’ll struggle to even make it to Nightmare if you don’t carefully consider your skills, gear, and tactics.
Once you have a basic understanding of how to build a character in a RPG, the game is really not as hard as some people are making it out to be.
Like I said, I’m now tearing through Nightmare and the only “thought” I’ve put into my skills is just taking whatever buffs Lightning Trap. When I get to Hell the only thing I’m really going to have to change up is doing something to address lightning immunity.
The one death I’ve had is because I let myself get surrounded and stagger had nothing to do with it because I didn’t get staggered. Actually the fact that I couldn’t run through mobs like they weren’t solid objects caused me more problems(and that absolutely should be in D4).
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I can actually totally agree with your overall premise it really isn’t super hard. If you want to efficiently and safely farm hell on hardcore or something you might have to make those considerations but overall you are right.
Although in hell though your resistances tank really hard and once you’re past act 2/3 the mobs start hitting pretty incredibly hard in some areas of 3/4/5 so you probably won’t find it breezy at all if you are actually going to try and play through hell especially being primarily lightning trap(you would probably have to respec if you dumped too much in there or you won’t have dmg to down light immunes in reasonable time) So I do disagree with you here a bit because pretty much any class can breeze through nightmare for example a sorc I could just plow points into frozen orb. But id be careful hell’s a pretty drastic change of pace once u get out of the beginning.
Anyway that aside, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying overall about D2 really. I just find it pretty weird that as a hardcore player in D2 one of those few deaths screws me, while D3 is almost annoying to me that unless I purposely customize a difficulty to inflate power creep to give me a challenge I can pretty mindlessly hack and slash everything.
That wouldn’t be annoying to me if the challenge with higher difficulties in D3 was diverse. But the challenge is just coming from the Health/dmg power creep on the mobs there are no new interesting affixes or mechanics to combat that ever really change how I approach it.
Conceptually not even just FHR although its just one example I don’t want the challenge in D4 to just be how much damage do I have how much combined defense do I have and now I just run into mobs.
But that’s the thing though. For ranged characters it’s optional, for melee it’s mandatory.
It’s not a big deal, they can easily balance that with skills and items.