Diminishing Returns on Thorns Damage Invoker?


Hello, my apologies if anyone has covered this before but I haven’t been able to find the exact topic. My question is: is there a point at which adding thorns ceases to add significant damage to the Invoker thorns build?

The reason am asking is because I recently found a primal belt of the trove and it came with 1 useless stat, punish dmg. I checked the leaderboard and everyone with primals in the top 20 or so decided to enchant thorns whether or not they had a useless stat. Next I decided to see the difference for myself on d3 planner. In the simulations I ran (repeatedly) there was no difference in DPS when adding the additional 9.5k thorns. The only DPS difference came from my previous belt being an 8 second cast to the primal being a 6 second cast.

If there truly is no damage difference by adding that 9.5k thorns then it seems it would be better to keep the 7% melee reduction and change punish % to life %.

If there is something the top of the leaderboard knows that I don’t, please clue me in. Also, please test on d3 planner for yourself.

Thank you


Like with all other stats, there are diminishing returns - I.E. Going from 100k to 110k thorns isn’t as large a boost as going from 200k->210k. It is why Heart of Iron is no longer used - The amount of thorns from gear and gems is enough that the thorns from Heart isn’t worth the loss of elites from pylons.

However, Thorns is the only 1 of 3 damage stats that Invoker’s cares about, with the other 2 being AS and Strength, and for Invokers, more then Toughness, Damage is what prevents you from climbing. So, sure, +%punish is a completely useless stat, BUT the thorns will help you go a longer way to pushing GR then the +15% life would.


Be careful where you look on D3 planner. Thorns will not show up in your sheet damage. Rather, check the punish (or slash) skill, which has a special thorns damage category.

You are limited in sources of thorns damage, and, as you note, the belt can roll up to 9500 (whereas most pieces are up to 3500). 9500 thorns on belt should be a 4 to 5% damage boost in a mostly optimized build.


Thank you both, rolling thorns def makes more sense to me now. And thank you for the heads up about d3 planner xlokk, I was definitely looking in the wrong place. I found actual thorns damage under the skills tab on d3 planner.


Ok, 2 piece bonus increases thorns 350% each punish attack or block and the increase stacks for 2 seconds. I’m running close to two attacks per second and have no I idea how many blocks per second but probably more than two. 4 times 350% is1400%. !400% times 15000% is 210000% or a multiplier of 2100. 2100 times 9500 is a 19,950,000 increase in damage. I would not consider that negligible. The 6 piece bonus operates off the 2 piece bonus thorns damage amount. If the D3 planner is telling you no difference, the D3 planner is wrong.