Diablo IV Quarterly Update - Q4 December 2021

Okay, as I need to write my feedback somewhere, I better do it here. Will try to put it as short as possible.

I. Itemization.
Guys, really, no jokes: just take D2 itemization and build everything upon it. This is your game, your franchise, and so you have all rights to do it. Just forget D3 as if it never existed.

II. Paragon
It looks more promising than D3’s one, but if it is limitless, this is a huge mistake as, at the very core, it again copies stupid D3 unsaturable endgame design.

III. Visual effects and combat
I love this part. Even a tiny fraction of improved physics is a great achievement for the series. Again improved graphics, effects and lighting is good too (though I didn’t like weapon enchantments - these look too cheap; better remove all that stupid glow and just leave colored effects on the surface itself).

What I still don’t like is combat sounds. I find them too dull, too “soft” so to say, even in comparison with those D3 has.

IV. Deaths effects
Yes we’ve seen all that already in D3, it is fine, but it would be cool if I had an option for the corpses to stay much longer in the game. It looks cheap when all corpses/remains disappear almost immediately. Same is true for inanimate [broken] objects and their parts. I want to ruin things, return, and see again all that havoc I’ve made.

4 Likes

Imagine if lvl 60 is max lvl, and it unlocks before max lvl, with 51-60 being more like 90-99 in Diablo 2?! That would be something.

I sure hope not.
But yeah, as I asked in my post earlier, we really need an update on the skill tree, because so much of the information in this blog seems like it might affect how the skill tree is desigend.

While I find the system potentially good, I agree that there seem to be too many tiles. They could easily be reduced significantly, without making the system less interesting.

BUT, there still need to be enough tiles to offer multiple paths around the board.
Still, instead of 200 tiles (or whatever) on a board, it could likely work just fine with 100 as well.
What matters more is how many points we get of course. I mean, if there is 200 tiles, but you can only get 20 of them, that is the same power as if there is 100 tiles, but you can still only get 20 of them.
But yeah, having 100 instead of 200 tiles for example, might make the whole thing easier to read for players.

While such systems are fine (and I have supported them too), what these web layouts offers, especially with the “gates” and “socket” nodes Blizzard talk about, is the importance of how you reach those important nodes. The tiles you pick around a socket node matters. The path you take to a gate matters. You can’t replicate that in a List design.

Very important questions indeed.

Uniques can have whatever amount of affixes, since they are static.
A Unique with 10 affixes can have the same power as a Rare with 5-6 affixes. and so can a Unique with 3 affixes.

:100:

You mean in terms of leveling them up? That could be a worry yeah.

This sounds bad:

Glyphs can also be leveled up by delving into some particularly dangerous dungeons.

Dont limit different endgame progressions to different specific activities :frowning: Let us run key dungeons because we like key dungeons, and clear camps because we like clearing camps. Not because we need Key Dungeon “XP” and Camps “XP” etc.
If nobody want to do Camps because of that, then look at why that might be, instead of forcing us to do it, to get those different rewards.
That said, it is okay if different activities offer a bit more of some rewards (targeting, as the blog discuss). Like Key dungeons might be slightly better for upgrading Glyphs than Camp clearing. While Camp clearing offers slightly more Runes. And so on.

:100:

5 Likes

Indeed… but even if it’s just a benign change of naming, I don’t like how it translates visually on the weapon tooltip, it’s very heavy.

Yeah, I noticed the “+16% Strenght” too. ^^
It is almost certainly a mock-up, the sell value is the same as last year’s Magic wand.

Yes, plus you are forced to run higher level dungeons to upgrade them…

I like

  • +Skill Rank affix
  • Legendary Essence
    • Recycle Legendaries and give a second life to Normal / Magic / Rare items
    • Is it possible to transfert a Legendary power on a Set item ?
    • Can we say Essences are socketable, so sockets are finally useful ? :star_struck:
    • It would allow more granularity and more build diversity
    • Great for inventory / storage management
    • Items will grow with your character and its future loot
    • Makes the crafting system useful
    • Do Legendary Essences stack (ranged roll) or are they distinct (accurate roll) ?
    • If second option, more space will be needed in the stash.
  • Paragon Boards
    • Feels like a mini-game with it’s own collectibles, interesting !
    • Seems to be composable in 2 dimensions (left/right + top/down)
    • By slicing abilities into small boards you avoid the quartering effect of the Gate of Fates of Wolcen or the tree of Path of Exile. With small boards, all parts are accessible. Small boards are like small branches of a biggest tree, and gates are like tiny teleporters from one branch to another. Ingenious, good job !
    • Could also be used for regular leveling, not only for Parangon points
    • Are the tiles generated randomly, like in every new game of Civilization ? That would make each game unique.
    • Can the player give a sneak peak at all boards before reaching the gates in order to plan its build ? Or is it discovered as a surprise once you reach the gate ?
    • I suppose you run for the gates if nodes are not enough interesting
    • When you reach a gate, on the new board, do you start from the gate you opened, or do you start from the center of the new board ?
    • Can the player go back to the previous board and reinvest points in it ?
    • Is it possible to unsocket a Glyph ?
    • Is it possible to undo a path ? (Respecialization)
    • If you undo all points in a board, what happens to the board when there is no more points in it ? Do the board disappears or is it still accessible so we can reinvest in it later ? I mean, does an unlocked board with all points respecialized into another board stays in place, or does it disappears because the game thinks you don’t want the board anymore ? Or is there a “Delete Board” option ?
    • Are boards looted from enemies ? How do you acquire them ?
  • Attack animation on multiple frames, more realistic hits
  • The environments, equivalent to Diablo 2 Resurrected in terms of ambiance
    • Gorgeous with plenty of small details
    • The snow falling on battlefield
    • Insects crawling and flying
  • Attacks VFX
    • Cold Spells (Ice Armor, Ice Nova, Channeled crouched Glacier)
    • Wind spells (WindBall, WindCircle, CrowsCircle)
    • Earth spells (combined with wind spells, gives strong vibes of Avatar The Last Airbender)
    • Fire spells (FireWall, FireBall, FlameThrower)
    • Lightning spells (Lightning arrow just like Guardians of the Galaxy)
  • GUI and skills icons
  • The Druid look, armors and human-animal transitions
  • The mature direction (dismembering enemies reminds me Soldier of Fortune)

I dislike

  • Videos are in 1440p whereas they should be 2160p (4K). We need 4K to praise your work.
  • Hydra look. Ugly. They do not blend into environment. The base is full of edges like Playstation 1 and the magma texture is not what I would expect from a Fire Hydra. That said, casting and disappearing animations are cool.
  • Tornado passing through the Druid. Should move a lot more its clothes and hair. Players need to feel the tempest. It seems to rain but i don’t see the rain effect on floor. Something must be done to increase the dramatic effect of the storm. Maybe some branches and leaves should fly on the screen. Besides, what happens when tornado is launched on sand or on snow ?
  • Barbarian Blade impact. Should have more impact variations. Currently the same texture is printed over and over on floor.
  • Sorceress FlameThrower alignment. Totally misaligned with her staff.
  • Druid WindBall sometimes not moving grass. We need to feel the Wind. Extra care required because Wind is translucide by definition.
  • Ice Armor coverage. Should cover feets at minima. Maybe cover staff.
  • The fur of the goat enemies. Currently don’t feel like fur.
  • Druid slipping. Sometimes the Druid moves without having its legs in motion.
  • Druid stone shield absence of collision. It should push enemies when walking, and enemies should not be able to enter inside this safe zone before breaking all the stones composing the shield.
  • Weird dust or light on zoomed Druid sequence, in background. Feels like a VFX bug.
  • Weapon buff VFX. Clearly the most deceptive asset. Looks like 10 years old. Something is missing. I don’t buy it. In Wolcen Beta (long time ago) they visually altered the steel material to make it look like magma or ice, it rendered great and was immediately identifiable: https://youtu.be/8B78UZLMlHM?t=97 … If you reuse that idea and put on top of that your Ice / Fire / Poison VFX coating, it should look good. NB : The slashing color also depends on the damage type. Red slashes for Fire, Blue slashes for Ice, …etc. Simple but efficient.
2 Likes

Looking at how unique items are set up from last year’s itemization update, and looking at the legendary items legendary affix, I don’t see a rare item matching a unique item (unless the unique item comes with detriment). Hence why I suggest using sockets as a way to help bridge said gap.

I agree that the Rares they have shown so far are way way too weak compared to Legendaries and Uniques.
Imo Rares need two more affixes than now (either by default or through crafting), and the ability to have more sockets.

2 Likes

Let’s hope they’ll make it so!

If static you’d have that with guides.

Yes. That’s why a sacrifice mechanic is needed.

Yes.

Yes.

Very possible it is the case.

I hope not! But they’ll add some options for the newbs for sure.

What you mean by that?

1 Like

You confirm what I am explaining. An item without socket = trash

This is what D3 did with Ramaladni’s Gift. But that only reinforced the feeling that an item with a socket is a must have. I’m not saying it’s a bad solution, but I preferred something more subtle. For example, transfer randomly between 1 or 2 affixes of a magic item to a rare item.

As I said on a post above, is that Last Epoch allows to do in its latest version by converting a unique item to legendary item with their system of legendary potential. https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/legendary-items-and-eternity-cache/45738

Yeah, all in all, the balance that the last itemization had set up (where most of them could be viable in endgame) no longer seems to be there. Then it doesn’t help that we still haven’t gotten an update pertaining to sockets and runewords.

If that pertains to magic and rare then that’s not an issue. It’d only be an issue if you needed sockets on legendaries and uniques as well.

Which imo is good. Sockets should be must have. PoE is doing the right thing with their sockets in PoE 2.0, removing it from the item generation, since having those sockets is integral to gameplay.
The rune system in D4 seems pretty good. Let us play around with it.
Adding sockets should just be really expensive.
Like: Adding first socket to a rare; super cheap.
Adding second socket, somewhat expensive, cant do it all the time while lvling up.
Adding third socket; very expensive. You wont be able to do that until endgame.
Adding fourth socket; immensely expensive. Something you work toward throughout endgame.

(for legendaries and uniques, you would start at step 2 or 3; so adding 1 socket to a unique would be endgame, adding a second socket would be late endgame)

Would be pretty bad if 95% of all rares were useless because they didnt drop with sockets. No affixes should be Must-Have. Then something is wrong with itemization.

2 Likes

Edited

If you undo all points in a board, what happens to the board when there is no more points in it ? Do the board disappears or is it still accessible so we can reinvest in it later ?

I mean, does an unlocked board with all points respecialized into another board stays in place, or does it disappears because the game thinks you don’t want the board anymore ? Or is there a “Delete Board” option ?

No need for complicated solutions, they should just stay faithful to what they said in the blog :

That Essence can then be implanted into another Legendary item, overriding the power that was present in the item at that time.

So Essence replace another Legendary power and no changing rares into Legendaries ! Simple and balanced.

1 Like

i agree with this but i have been searching for a use for white items and this seems to be a good opportunity without messing with balance even further

Theoretically if you remove all points from say board 2 from a chain of 1 → 2 → 3 → 4, you’d disconnect boards 3 and 4, and you’d have active only 1.

The scenario with highest skill cap will be to have all of your boards available, switchable (for example replace board #9 with board #23 you just accessed) and rotatable, but without the possibility to remove already assigned points from these.

1 Like

Why not, if the essence changes the white into a legendary of the same type, it would be just as good. :v:

exactly
and it would still give it some random factor with the normal affixes being rolled randomly

1 Like

Honestly, I think that’ll only be the case if items are constantly raining from the sky. If not, then it’s not much of an issue.

Well the reason I made that suggestion, was because in last year’s update, they had stated that rare items can roll with 5 affixes, while legendary items only have 4 affixes + a legendary affix. So assuming that hadn’t changed, that would mean with this new update, you can make legendary items with 5 affixes + a legendary affix.

Now sure, if the essence only worked with legendary items, then it’s no issue.

that would simply make every single dropped legendary useless
so i guess they just made rare items crafting material with 4 normal affixes now
sadge

+Skills coming back in D4

This one’s hard to evaluate since we haven’t seen the skill tree in a while and it’s very much subject to change. These can rapidly become too powerful (ie D2) if too much power finds its way into the skill tree. I like the idea in theory since it offers power to hybrid characters who use a wide variety of skills. However, ultimately, this becomes a math problem. If the optimum solution is to pick 2 main abilities and max them with your natural points, then augment with +skills on items, people will do that. How these things scale matters. Linear? Diminishing returns? Expanding returns? We don’t know yet, but the devs need to be thinking the opportunity cost of these affixes vs the other ones that will be on items. Will I want +skills above all else regardless of build? Or are there times I actually want something else? (CDR to breakpoint? something else?). When designing, please take the time to do the math and get the affix power balance right.

Afterthought: also, please take into consideration if you go to all this work to get this right, it’d be terrible to throw that all away as in D3 with single items/sets with multipliers so large that they invalidate all of this. +75,000% to a single skill? Come on!

Legendary Essences

I’d like to echo Shadout’s concern about rare items. If all rares can be augmented by Legendary essences, we’re back to every character’s optimum is either sets or legendaries as in D3. Rare and magic items are again reduced to ground clutter/litter, other than as fodder for improving your legendaries. D2 added in the possibility of getting really great stat sticks in rares. This is a good thing, but it only works if you can get enough stats on the stick to offset the power loss from not putting on the legendary affix.

If magic and rare items are to be useful (bringing back an obsidian ring of the zodiac or godly plate of the whale, for example), we need enough power on those items to make them worth equipping.

That legendary essence needs to be a trade-off. We’d need a rare essence or something similar so that we could augment our base magic/rare with stats and equip that. Thoughts?

Afterthought: what’s the end-game purpose of white items? Will rune-words make a return? And if so, there should be a simple way to get the number of sockets you need, such as having the blacksmith simply recarve the sockets for you at a cost.

Targeted Item Hunt

Like it, love it, want some more of it!

Paragon Board

Sigh. Like COVID, this virus just keeps mutating but never goes away.

Either we have a meaningful leveling system (finite level with a max level) or we have infinite leveling. Trying to marry the two together like in D3 was a disaster. The 1-70 part becomes trivial and indeed, a nuisance. It becomes a forced tutorial you must play through every season. Then, we get to the Paragon system itself. You’re only making meaningful choices for the first 800 levels, then after that, it’s just pure, unadulterated system for encouraging unhealthy levels of play or botting. And every season, we hear about some new exploit to jump up the paragon system, then run to the ladders and dominate - which makes other highly competitive players rightfully livid. Infinite scaling, even linearly, is an avoidable problem.

We should have a point where we’ve beaten the game. You’ve maxed out your character, and you’re done. Go outside and get some sun on your face, Fearless Warrior. If you want more, PVP, pick a different build to try, or make another character. (Request for an armory function to save and rapidly switch builds!)

Ultimately, what problem are you trying to solve with paragon? Giving PVE/PVM players incentive to keep playing? That’s what the loot hunt is for. If they’ve finished the loot hunt, that’s what build diversity and alternate characters are for. If they play obsessively to an unhealthy degree, that’s what seasons/forced wipes are for. Maybe I’ve missed something? But as I understand it, the Paragon system was created to reward people for playing even if they could only play a short time or had bad luck with drops. Ultimately, casual players have to accept they will not progress like hardcore players. And bad luck is a feature of randomness - and that can be curtailed somewhat via a number of systems limiting randonmness in the rolls or offering catch-up/second chance mechanics. The point being that there is no problem that must exclusively be solved by adding an infinitely scaling power creep.

Making an overly complicated, table top-esque system with a ton of choices to replace the simple paragon system isn’t the right solution. In fact, it’s exactly the wrong solution from a game company that holds as its mantra: easy to learn, difficult to master.

Visual improvements

Your art team is earning their paychecks, that’s for sure.

My only nit to pick was the poison weapon effect. Is it supposed to be like chlorine gas or something? I understand we need something green and flashy enough to be seen, but this paled in comparison to the other effects. I was expecting some dripping poison or something: a poison-coated blade. Maybe you tried it and it didn’t look good?


As always, thanks for the insight into the process and the opportunity to discuss! Merry Christmas to you all and Happy New Year!

7 Likes

Love it… much better. Only criticism i have is that i would like to see certain skill effects display on the ground for longer than they currently are (such as holes, smash effects and freeze effects) and preferably until the character leaves that screen, even better the currect game.

Thought i would add i know freeze effect damage needs to end or the skill is too op but the effect visually could melt slower.

3 Likes