i`m 110 % agree , but something blizzard west , dont look to understand , 19 year ago most player are all casual , and blizzard north never have the need to give us some type of lazy casual game design , i miss this era where blizzard north make game for pc player
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DONāT YOU HAVE PHONES?!
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Just an idea, but continuing the train of thought regarding more interesting affixes and normal/magic/rares being competitive, would adding a system to the game where affixes can be extracted and imprinted into other items (except legendaries), and improved to a certain extent make all these items more important commodities than they were in d3? Such that the potential of rares could outstrip legendaries on the affix department, with the limitation that normal /magic/rare items dont have the unique abilities found on legendaries.
I will continue to say this over and over in hopes that others will do the same and the devs listen. Diablo 4 has potential, that potential is ruined for a good chunk of their fanbase with anything other than D2 like itemization.
I understand not everyone feels this way but a large portion of the community does. I have no doubt that people who loved D3 will love D4 with D2 like itemization. But D4 with D3 like itemization and the D2 fans will find it too simple and not buy it
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attack and defense also in d2 as well through attack rating and defense, but they serve totally different purpose. d4 current itemization r for kids, as soon as I heard they say they want to make it easier for people to play the game. with less math involve the better, I knew its gonna turn into some diablo 3.5 crap. the entire itemization in d3 is a major failure compare to d2, and they know it. why still follow a failed system, when a more successful system already exist and known to work wonderfully. Iāll wait and see their next couple update, if its still the same crap soo simple as attack defense and some legendary power stack. I wouldnāt bother with d4 or d3.5 what ever u call it.
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Iāve never played Diablo II Vanilla/Classic, Iāve only ever played LoD, so Iāve never experienced the end game struggle before LoD was released. Right now, using v1.14D D2 LoD without mods nor ladder content, Iām building a hardcore single player barbarian equipping only self found/NPC Magic/Blue items and only using cube recipes that pertain to blues, which is basically repairs, rerolling for new stats and sockets. The only thing going in the sockets are jewels. Iām using /players 8 and at clvl 52 Iām just facing Nightmare Andarial for the first time. It is challenging and a lot of fun, which is what I want form a game.
Playing this way I can see that the foundation of the items were built from basic white items up to magic items and so on. Obvious to some, but I donāt think D3 was built this way, at least not as well thought out. D2 LoD is beatable just equipping magic/blue items and though playing this way isnāt easy, it is doable and it gives one a deeper understanding of how well each skill works, how well the synergies work together and how important the affix system is on the items. Itās also really fun to see how the NPCās item progression unfolds as the character levels. Iāve not experienced this level of subtility in the game before and I believe Diablo IV needs to be build this same way.
I believe if a player is unable to beat the entire game on all difficulties using just magic/blue items in D4, then the game will not be as good as Diablo II Lord of Destruction. Yes, the sales will be better, but the game will not be as enduring. I hope at launch Diablo 4 is as basic and as deep as D2 Vanilla, then a year or two later a deeper and more exciting Diablo 4 expansion is released, built off the foundation of the vanilla game like Lord of Destruction was off D2 vanilla.
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Iām okay with them keeping atk-def stats, Iām not okay with them not adding a main stat system to contain the soul and essense of Diablo from the day1. Not all of our power has to be loaded on our gear with the hopes of a half-baked talent tree carrying the burden.
Donāt fall into the same paragon level loophole with the mainstat system and itāll be fine. Why so afraid of losing ācontrolā? I donāt wanna be harsh but thatās personal worries spilling into the design in my opinion. Just donāt repeat the same thing by giving into the pressure, people didnāt like the paragon system at all. We want this game to be a sustainable loothunt, not a yardstick grinder.
I think we need to look beyond the stat system & think about how can we make different tiers of items when we go from a low value tier to a higher value tier all worth something endgame?
What gives each tier their value?
Normal - Starting items, something to hold no affixes &/or suffixes.
Magic - Adds your first affixes &/or suffixes.
Rares - Adds typically the maximum number of affixes &/or suffixes a item can have except for Ledendary affixes &/or suffixes.
Ledendary - Adds Ledendary affixes &/or suffixes.
Ancient - Just a basic stat value increase over Ledendaries.
Mythic - Adds 4 Ledendary affixes &/or suffixes but also only a single Mythic can be equipped.
So really thereās only 2 overall tiers
- Normals, Magics, Rares or NMRs
- Ledendaries, Ancients, Mythics or LAMs
Normal & Ledendaries act as the place holder starting items for each tier that are to be replaced by the high items in their tier as soon as possible.
Now looking at Ancients these are the items you want Endgame bar for a single slot that you will use for your Mythic item. And thatās it for an endgame build. Ancient & Mythic become the only items youāre chasing.
The NMRs more socket item imitates the LAMs tier in that NMRs become the crafter item path where as LAMs become the direct item path. With the difference that NMRs path endgame build is focused on 6 socketed Rares in each item slot bar the 1 6 socketed Rare Runeword item that fills the same objective at Mythic items.
So beyond whatever stat system is used bar higher tiers always having higher stat value then the lower the means:
- NMRs are a item crafting path.
- LAMs are a direct item path.
Endgame you are either looking for a LAMs direct item to power you up or a NMRs base item that a player can build from to power up their build.
JUST as suspected = ATK/DEF is just another Summarized representation of original stats
Hereās a vid (and original thread on Reddit) with all the affixes that belong to them
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/dr4koj/list_of_affixes_from_the_diablo_4_demo/
So NO, there arenāt ATK/DEF stats (as stat by itself) itās just like the Damage/Toughness summarized representation (for casuals) like in RoS
What I DO like is there arenāt core stats (actually I DONāT quite like that), they shouldāve used CORE STAT to upgrade skills you select (+int gives more damage, say + 550 int gives a magic missile + 55 damage (assuming high/max level), or +550 to a meteor(same, high/max) level), Or say Barb = +500 Str gives a +250 damage to a non-basic skill for ex.
Things like thatā¦ The CORE problems of D3 werenāt āsummarizationā of stats into categories (Damage/Toughness/Recovery), those are designed for casuals that donāt care about specificsā¦ You may get an item where it says +50 Vita (which would be say like +400 HP, but would lose an item that would reduce your CC impairing duration by say 20%, the āToughnessā number might still say the Vita is tougher, but a well-experienced player might know that thatās noooot quite always the case)
Sooooo NO, Iām NOT worried about the ATK/DEF, cause again those arenāt STATS by themselves, theyāre a ārough summaryā of everything in them
What I AM afraid tho is I donāt see them address the āTrifectaā effect of Crit spamā¦ Iāll be honest = apart from Weapons, Gloves for melee classes (Specifically gained by skills for melee class/es) and MAYBE an amulet here & there, Iād REALLY NOT like to have that Crit-spam
Letās be honest = again thereās SUPER HIGH chance for that to outperform everything else and also lead to a relatively bad PvP experience
I am HAPPY that they separated ALL the defense/survival stats as separate, i.e:
Dodge %,
Block %,
Cold res %,
Fire res %,
Lightning res %,
Poison res %, (yes there is a poison-res % stat even though no class uses poison, YET)
AND most importantly
CC duration %
As SEPARATE statsā¦ So = no longer stacking Armor would immediately mean you take less damage from EVERYTHING out there, no longer stacking X% res would also mean reduced CC duration by that same %, those things are SEPARATE to take care
Canāt say Iām not hyped tbh. Itās obvious they realized the mistake/s they did so far so (hopefully) no ātrifectaā crit-spam and skills no longer related to Weapon % DPSā¦
However I DO hope those āaffixes on legendariesā occur on other/rare items here % there for the sake of not farming only legās all the way, and MAYBE have blues highest rolls of things that give +X stats for X skill tree per class (or +x to all skills) in order to have a reason to use them
The +6k atk/def on the Mythic amulet for ex. isnāt a direct stat, but instead a representation of how it would affect the TOTAL/s of your character
Can safely say Iām kinda gonna āsleep well and relaxā cause they didnāt do the biggest mistakes that D3 didā¦ What I REALLY HOPE though is they donāt repeating the ātrifectaā problem of crit-spam-or-die-trying all over again
Wish I didnāt see Crit-% and Crit-% damage on items being part of the āATKā stat, but one can hope they have those things āwell containedā and have a good % of those things be STAT-BASED (via character build) per class
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Dude I played Diablo 2 like a simple minded casual player for years before getting deeper into it.
The itemization had no negative effect on me during that time.
But that itemization has a POSITIVE effect on people who play with the game in-depth.
Casual Players donāt care about any kind of itemization whether deep or not. We just wana left click on stuff.
Hardcore Players care and I think that it is the hardcore player group that should be appeased by doing the itemization really well.
While we are on the topic, bring back Stat Points.
Stat Points are great for casual players because we love small things like that. We didnāt try to max Vit. We put points in Strength and Energy to get stronger and cast spells more often lol.
There are all kinds of casual players. I am just giving 1 example from my own experience as a little kid.
I think this whole focus on the āWhat would be good for casual players?ā is kinda out of whack.
I mean you should give some attention to the experience of new players.
But also keep in mind that Depth is more important than anything.
New players cannot recognize depth, the game has to be good enough for them to stay and play it. I think Diablo 4 with its core gameplay, combat etc, is really attracting the casual gamer in me.
But it is the Hardcore Veterans who are gona play your game year after year and keep it alive and inspire New players to learn and get better. So far Diablo 4 has done nothing to attract the Hardcore gamer in me. Right now this game just seems like something I would play with my sister and spouse for a short while and then move on to other games that have more DEPTHā¦
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Ya feels like they just copy pasted D3s deeply flawed and limited system and are rolling on ahead with it.
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I want to spend more time play with my gears, not play for them.
What are you working for then? 
PoE rely on whales that throw hundreds every few months on supporter packs.
D4 need to keep this price model out with a 10 foot pole.
Generic nobody on the internet post how his game is being ruined.
This is a pretty common and simple minded opinion by the way.
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Except path of exile, despite relying on free to play monetezation, was STILL drastically less negatively monetized. POE monetization is almost 100% cosmetic. its a good model.
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If my opinion is common, you should go and see why many others agree. Many have written why they think theyāre going on the wrong path with D4. Have you been on these forums since last Friday? Have you been on YouTube for the past couple of days? Those two sentences contradict each other so hard that Iām almost convinced youāre trolling. So here; Iāll just give you a tl;dr.
People want depth in a Diablo game.
Diablo 3 did not have depth.
They look like theyāre on the path of following itemization Diablo 3 had for D4 and people are worried.
Do you understand or should I try to simplify it for you further?
Nah man, Iām sorry. You HAVE to be trolling, thereās no way.
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This video takes my point further:
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the sad thing is people tend to forget why ros implemented those insane % dmg multi on itemsā¦ āto get past the trifectaā keep in mind a lot of the old lvl 60 items were more powerful than lvl 70 items as reaper of souls launchedā¦ as stated in this video by noxious the base of d3 was terribleā¦
so the problem is about yellow items have like 200 atk/def and legendary/mythic etc like +5000?
this kinda looks like those multis on sets of d3 and this scares peopleā¦
(even if it is like yellow items have 4 stats and legendary 20 stats)
it is not just about this as legendary powers compared to eachother are basically the same problemā¦
I agree, but was talking about that there were no primary stats
ATK/DEF were not stats by itself, but instead a SUMMARY of stats
The yellow item may have been lower level as well (again, not defending but kinda, ehh, even in D2 a lvl30 item had more stats than a lvl15 one for ex.)
Hereās a Reddit link (and a vid) to see what kind of things consist the ATK, and what kind of things consist the DEF ābenchmarkā of things
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/dr4koj/list_of_affixes_from_the_diablo_4_demo/
I ALSO would like them re/implement the main stats again (Str, Int, Dex), BUT not have them tied to weapon damage and certainly NOT a multiplierā¦ BUT those should be related to the power of skills
Here under #4 if interested
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