Can’t wait but you already changed the premise of your argument from me bashing the game to bashing players. Which I have not denied bashing players that sling insults and feels as facts. So I can’t wait to see all the post where I bash Diablo 2.
the problem was really. people came into this thread, without even reading the OP text, not even talking about the comments, just the title and started flaming like "ooh nuuuuu without respec i have to redo character all de tiiiimmmmm. this very baaad. you veryy baaaad.
so i told him to change the title. its missleading.
We’re on the same page there, I just don’t take kindly to Starship trying to weasel out of what he said, because letting it go uncorrected sets a bad precedent. As long as the OP stays unchanged and he doesn’t edit his posts long after the fact to conceal his original intent or try to posture like we’re just misconstruing what he says, it’s fine.
Yeah, reshaping opinion based on presented information isn’t a bad thing, and arguably the adult thing to do. Trying to make it sound like you didn’t have the original controversial stance isn’t so hot and should be called out. I also had to do a brow quirk at the title change since it basically went from clickbait to not-quite-but-close.
Not going to skim the whole thread again, but the age-ism tirade that popped up partially through and has been regurgitated by a few others here and there also wasn’t cool, alongside being a complete red herring. Millennials, teens, or whatever demographic haven’t “ruined” anything. To blanketly ignore the evolution of technology, understanding of psychology, the realities of players in various demographics, personal growth and understanding of genres, histories of games themselves, and then some just comes off as a giant red flag that such “game experts” really shouldn’t be listened to when the core of their argument becomes “Screw everyone but me!” A couple games here and there having niche success doesn’t mean they’ll achieve mainstream success if you just keep repeating them and hope this’ll be the iteration that nails it. Frankly, it’s not far removed from people who think how streamable a game is translates to how many actually enjoy playing it.
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I’m not cowering mate. I still stand by what I said. I didn’t want people to think I’m against all respecs as I’m not I think they should be HIGHLY limited. Im just trying to illustrate that you change the entire landscape of the game by allowing everyone to be anything at all times. You remove strategy and planning to your character.
If you just want to click buttons and kill zombies maybe play something else than Diablo as it was much more in depth before D3. Also although there have been upgrades to the TECHNOLOGY, you’d be stupid to assume every change that happens with time moving forward is a good one and constitutes progress.
I would argue a lot of the current philosophy that is touted by many in this generation, this ultra-left give me free stuff, I dont want to work, over tax the rich and give free stuff to the poor has bled its way into many things, including art and video games.
And just because “thats the current status quo of thought” in this day and time does not make it objectively right. I’m arguing for old school gaming and some old school values. Yes. Your choices should matter. No. Buying a game should not entitle you to complete all content and we shouldnt dumb things down for every 6 year old and idiot who cbf using their focus and intelligence to get better at the game and improve.
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Honestly I’m convinced most of the people crying about “millennials ruining gaming” don’t actually know the age range of millennials.
I’m convinced most gamers are between the ages of 3 and 5, most nights.
This thread has certainly gone in all kinds of directions.
Honestly, the game just need kind of respec cost. My takeaways so far:
- Currency cost that goes up each time you respec. If some time goes by without respeccing, cost starts to go down again. 1 token for first respec, 2 tokens for second respec, 4 tokens, 8 tokens etc. Every week without respeccing the price goes down one step (like from 8 to 4 etc).
- Respec tokens must have a cap on how many you can hold - so you cant just get unlimited respecs over time. Like in the scenario above, maybe you can never have more than 8 or 16 tokens at once. They should of course be untradable, and bound to your character, not to your account.
- Maybe a free respec once in a while, from an NPC. Like each week or two (or rarer, depending on the cost of normal respecs), you can get a completely free respec. So you aren’t screwed over by lack of respec token drops.
- During lvling, the respec npc could give free respecs for the first 30 lvls (or whatever lvl makes sense), while you are still getting new skills, and trying things out.
- Respec should cover both skills and talents
- Add an arena to the game, fighting random enemies who got no drops or xp, where you can freely try out other builds without committing to a respec. So you never have to respec blindly.
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Well that’s just not fair to my 4 year old nephew.
He’s a much nicer person to be around than most gamers.
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See now 6 sounds like a good option to pair with 1. I’d be on board for that. I get the satisfaction of trying things out. If In don’t like I’ve committed nothing but time. I can tweak until Infind a combo I like and take it out.
Combining 1 and 6 from that list would be good I think.
I would also include post-launch if they’re doing balance changes that are significant, they should offer a full refund to characters of that class as a 1 time deal to make up for the fact that your build may have just been completely turned on its head.
Even PoE offers that.
Yup. They started turning 40 and as a whole, have been adults for almost a decade now.
Oh yeah. Would make sense and they did that in WoW. When a class got an overhaul, they reset talents.
Gaming has never been better than it is now honestly, so the ‘ruined’ part never made sense to begin with. Not like people of the same age (and it sure it a broad age range for millennials) are some kind of hivemind anyway. Millennials clearly dont like just one way to do things - just like no other age group does. Some will love extremely harsh respec limits, others will like having no respec limits.
In the end it is up to the developers to create the game they believe to offer the best experience. And make damn sure that each choice you make influence the others. So if you have a respec cost, the game is designed around that choice. If you have no respec cost, the game is designed around that choice. You can’t make a game for everyone - don’t ever try.
Yeah, I grew up on the old games that people praise from the 90s and early 2000s as the old classics. Now apparently I’m ruining modern gaming because I “can’t handle games like that”.
I also find it funny when people go on about “Diablo 3 is so easy it’s like it was made for kids” and I’m sitting here remembering how I was 7 when Diablo 1 came out and I beat it just fine.
I even beat a few 90s AD&D cRPGs without even understanding the basic DnD rules and just blundering my way through things.
They could really just give a free respec with each major patch too. No matter if the class had significant changes. Maybe some items were added, or new game content, that made you want to reconsider your choices. And that is fine.
pls dont try to get political here
we might just stop being friends, lol
Hehe, yeah, I really missed the boat on DnD, but I love CRPGs, so played most of them, repeatedly, without ever really knowing DnD rules.
As for D3 being easy. People probably mean it is easy/fast to get gear - which it certainly is. In terms of combat/gameplay, D3 is easily as difficult as D1 and D2, which were never particularly hard games either. D3 might be simple, but simple doesnt mean easy.
Take the Souls games for example. They are pretty simple. You literally have 2 attack buttons. No combos or anything. But they still manage to offer engaging gameplay with that simplicity.
Some of the games that have tried to copy Souls don’t understand it, they just keep adding systems, more attacks, skill trees and what not, not improving the formula, just making it feel messy.
That said, A-RPGs is a different beast imo. I think they need some of that messiness, some of that ‘systems on top of systems’, to make for interesting character building.
There’s a point when I’d have argued gaming could have only gotten better because of the fact that old games never died.
After all when I think about the great games from my childhood it’s not like they’re gone. My favourite game of all time is still Half-Life 1 and I just played that the other day. Even if I hated every modern game(which I don’t, by far) those old games I love are still completely playable. Modern gaming can’t take that away, it can only add to it.
Though in recent years the whole “live service” BS is putting a bit of a damper on that point of view. Blizzard actually could make Diablo 3 go away forever, and we’d be reliant on private servers trying their best to replicate it. Diablo 4 looks like it’s shaping up to be the same situation.
Other than that yeah, Blizzard has to decide who they’re really making Diablo 4 for. If it ends up not being me, I got other games I can play. I’m pretty excited about what’s coming in 2020 anyway.
Plus, I came to terms that what I want out of a game and what Blizzard makes has drifted apart a little bit compared to what it was 20 years ago. They’re not my #1 developer like they used to be.
I know. People, right. I beat Diablo with one skill on all difficulties back in the day on all three classes.
But Beefhammer, you failed to understand the nuances and complexity of the systems potential. Didn’t matter I had fun with the one ability I used. Similarly did basically the same thing with my gimped Paladin in D2. It wasn’t until LoD when I started messing with other things. But still essentially did it with 2 abilities and an aura.