Diablo 4 upgrade to d3? Should be upgrade to d2

I haven’t done my research on the topic but I’m willing to bet a very high majority of Diablo players would say that the d2 family (d2 lod d2r) is the best in the series by a large margin. So why on earth isn’t Diablo 4 an upgrade to d2? After playing the beta and reaching into the high 70s the game feels a lot like Diablo 3.

There’s a lot I like about Diablo 4 but there are also some concerns I have. I wanted to make a pros and cons list to better visualize how I feel.

Pros

Graphics - I had to play the game on the lowest of low settings and even with that my computer had a hard time with the game. I know for a fact the graphics are amazing, just need to upgrade my pc to see it.

Skill tree - big upgrade to d2 on this one. Love the way each node has different skills in it unlike d2 where each tree was of the same family of skills. A lot more variety to builds from the skill tree in d4.

Unique items - seemed powerful and the drop chance was just right to me. Some days after playing a few hours I wouldn’t see one and other days I’d get 3.

Goblins - love the fact these guys are returning and the chance they drop a legendary is very high which is very fun.

World bosses - found myself always looking for the icon for world bosses on the map. Some of the best times were fighting these bosses.

Cons

Loot - a continuation from Diablo 3 into immortal and now d4, the loot is boring and needs to be more like d2. The loot system in d2 was amazing. You have 3 different tiers of items, normal, exceptional, and elite all with their own uniques and sets. When you see that gold skull cap on the ground you know what it is and it’s very exciting, you just don’t know what % it’s magic find will roll. When a helm drops in d4 is says helm. It’s very boring. All the items are like this. Chest boots gloves… instead of quilted leather and breast plate. It might be a small thing but for many of us the way you’re doing the loot for the last 3 Diablo games is garbage.

D4 still has those 3 tiers of loot each dropping from higher difficulties but I really hated the fact that if I found a legendary with a power that I wanted I had to find another item of the same difficulty tier in order to imbue the power onto that item. Sometimes I would find a tier one legendary with the power I wanted but I needed the item to be tier 3 and in those cases it felt bad.

In d2, some uniques found at low levels could be used in the end game. The skull cap tarn helm for example could be used for magic finding even at high levels. Nothing like this exists past d2. You have to find higher level gear for it to be an upgrade and that sucks.

In d4 I found myself looking at the stats on rare items for awhile but after some time they were so common I was just salvaging all of them without even looking. They are so common and it was taking me too much time to look through all the stuff. This is the same problem d3 and immortal have in regards to loot. 95% of the loot is complete trash and most is left on the ground or picked up just to sell.

Every single item in d2 had a purpose. Gray items were either socketed or ethereal both highly sought after. White items were used for socket quests or Charsie. Magic items could have some of the highest damage in the game (until lod released but still could be good). Rare items were the best for amulets and some rings and before lod released rare weapons and some other items could roll with godly stats. Most of these items are just left on the ground, but some people would farm for specific items. Some people would keep these whites and grays for trading.

No sets? - did I miss something? I know I didn’t get to level 100 but I didn’t see any set items. Big part of Diablo not yet in the game.

No runewords? - I know some people didn’t like runes in d2 but I’m putting this under con because being able to collect runes was one of my favorite things to do in d2. I do not understand why this feature hasn’t been continued at all in future Diablo titles.

Hardcore - concerning. I played hardcore in d2 for. Many years and when I go back and play d2r I play hardcore. I started playing hardcore in d3 after the first play through but it didn’t feel right. Too many ways to get trapped or one shot. No stat points to buff my life so I could take the hits when I was low levels. Not having the alt f4 button to get me out of those very bad situations was a huge change from d2 and some would say that was a good change I think the way you cast a portal in d4 is a good compromise. Didn’t try alt f4 but I imagine it works like d3.

Pvp - I went into the pvp zone at one point to try it out. I felt fairly powerful as a sorcerer at level 45ish. There was a Druid a few levels lower so I decided to see how much damage I could do to them. I was using hydra and frozen orb and when I attacked the Druid it did less than 5% of its life and then I got one shot. Not having a log to see how I died was very frustrating. I don’t know if he had the unique chest with massive thorns damage and I had killed myself by attacking? No way to know. If I did indeed die to thorns maybe players with that unique item should have an aura on their feet. Felt terrible dying like that.

No fetish minions? When I think of Diablo I think of those undead dolls blowing up in my face. I can do without the undead versions of these minions but I would very much like the swarming fetish minions that have shown up as allies to the Witch doctor in d3 and also in immortal. I feel like these minions were a huge part of the game and are now absent in d4. Some other minions that I would also like to see would be the doom/oblivion knights.

I absolutely hate how mobs level as you level. It has been like this in Diablo 3 and immortal and it sucks in my opinion. As a hardcore d2 player, being able to farm an area to increase strength is a great way to stay alive when facing harder foes. In d4, as you level everything else gets stronger and if you don’t find upgrades, leveling seems to be a bad thing in some cases. There were times where I had legendary powers I didn’t want to lose so I was using lower level gear and gimping myself. I don’t want to be forced to use the best items I find because the powers on the gear changes the way some of the skills work.

At its current state I don’t Diablo 4 could hold my interest as long as d2 has. I know it’s not a finished game but there are some huge concerns after playing the beta for a few weeks. I feel like the Diablo 4 team is trying to reinvent the franchise and is not taking what was previously successful and building on that.

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Okay thank you.

D3 had 65 million players over 10 years how many did D2 have?
Last time I checked D2R had 5m sales and a lot of people wanted a refund.

Did you agree to the NDA?

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“I haven’t done any research, but I assume I’m right anyway” about sums up the internet.

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Best comment today this is for you. :point_right: :ice_cream:

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I highly doubt that “very high majority of Diablo players would say that the d2 family (d2 lod d2r) is the best in the series by a large margin” is a factual statement.

:100:

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Oh boy. Here we go again… :roll_eyes:

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I’m so sick of this attitude.

Do you know why D2 did this, and why D3 and D4 don’t need to?

Was it actually fun to find an item at like level 20 that you never, ever replaced?

Magic items in current D2 are basically worthless, as are gray items. Only whites, rares, and uniques/sets are worth anything.

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If history is any guide it will be neither. Instead it will be completely different from what has gone before. Feel free to argue amongst yourselves about that. I’ll just wait to find out.

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Which is why I have zero hope for humanity.

“Yeah, I have access to the combined knowledge of the human race at a moments notice, but nah, I’m not wasting 10 seconds to look up the facts, and if by some fluke I did I’m just gonna ignore anything that doesn’t agree with my ignorant statement anyway”

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that sounds bad lol
is salvaging a thing again? what does it turn into? how does crafting look like? i hate d3 crafting :x

Op has zero posts. Avoid the bait.

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Good.

Another “D4 is D3 upgrade” thread created here. I lost count on how many similar threads were created here but it is a good sign telling those here who still think D4 developers hate D3 and D3 fans and trying to cater to D2 fans in D4. :sunglasses:

If most of D2 fans think “D4 is D3 upgrade”, I guess those who think otherwise; “D4 is D2 upgrade”, is clearly minority among their fanbase. :smiley:

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D3 got more than 65mil players. D2 doesnt come close to that.

Take of your rose tinted glasses. D4 is a upgrade of d1, d2, d3 and DI with new things.

This is how d2 fanboys think: “if its not a d2 reskin its a d3 reskin”. Grinding pindle over and over rly made their brain melt.

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Not to pick a fight or anything, but grey items can be runeworded too.

I was playing an Assassin in D2R just a while ago…until World cup started.

Theer are certainly a lot of good things to bring from D2, but also a tom of bad stuff.

Upgrade to gears are so hard to come by & pretty much most people level up with the few runes words (spirit, Lore, smoke, leaf etc). Skill tree are as dull as yesterday’s french fries.1 point to your main skill or synergy every level for slight increase in damage. Yawn

For traps, pretty much only +skill gears matter, & they are mostly exclusive to uniques & runewords with helm & ammy exception.

Even after you unlock the main skill, its pretty useless until you invest signifcantly to it & its synergy & better off use another skill until you level enough.

My wake of Fire trap does about 300 damage at level 31 (with some synergy), & my lightning sentry (the one I actually want to use) does like 40 damage. The idea is I should respec after nightmare but the design is bad.
If you have to invest 20 points before a skill is useful, the design failed!!!

Alot of D2 fanboys love the +skill design, & cired when weapon boost spells in D3/D4.
The good thing about weapon link damage is you have open up far more possibility instead of the few uniques/runewords with +skills, & your spell are not dog Po until you put 20+points to it & its synergy.

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That combined to the general tone of the post are a clear red flag. It’s a bait. The very first sentence of the post sums it up.

Also I believe the NDA of the closed D4 beta is still in effect so by openly talking about specific features in D4 the OP has breached the NDA he agreed to.

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Honestly D2 and D3 are by and large the same sodding game, and only extreme afficionados like us would note any drastic differences apart from common sense QoL improvements. I just like that D2 doesn’t require a serious time commitment before you find any sort of challenge.

IIRC there are some skills that benefit from standard affixes apart from +skill, paladin combat tree comes to mind.

But I mean if you dump all your points into corpse explosion or whatever, of course your rank 1 bone lance isn’t going to size up to that. A new skill every 6 levels in between choice of upgrades seems fine to me, hell WoW vanilla talents were more exacerbated than that and I enjoyed them just the same.

Why is the base assumption that it is an upgrade to anything?
Maybe it is a downgrade to both D2 and D3! :stuck_out_tongue:

Sadly doesn’t seem unlikely.

No one say putting more points shouldn’t improve a skill. the point is you can have level 30 skill & it does dog po damage (like tickling white mobs) unless you put massive amount of points & synergy.

It should be at least decent when unlock, & improve per level, especially later skills.

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finally, the truth comes out.