Diablo 4 must not have trading

Yes, any game not catering to the 10 year olds segment is a failure. You heard it here first :crazy_face:

The most absurd thing is, for those people who can’t do math, we already have the solution; Green Arrows™. The greatest thing since sliced bread.

That would defeat the concept of random loot, not to mention the overall complexity and opacity of such system. Smart loot is just reducing other classes specifics items/affixes.
But it could work well as a crafting/gambling system.

At this point I was mentioning class items only. Class affixes would probably be desirable on most item slots, much more than 1% overall.
At the very worst, smart loot produces far less useless items for your character than D2-like loot.

Dropping what you need is annoying ? :thinking:
Looks like all Rogues have a ranged weapon slot, so these drops should always be welcome.

Huh ? How did you get to this conclusion ?
Getting more bows as a javazon wouldn’t be more annoying than getting axes or other useless weapons for this build, but since this class would also get more javelins thanks to smart loot, that would still be a much better experience than 100% random drops.

Definitely not any more than Smart loot does. The loot would still very much be random in any case.

Just like getting a Fire Resist MF boost would reduce non-Fire Resist affixes occurrence.

Neither item crafting or gambling should exist. Those do much more to defeat the concept of random loot from monsters.
Items should come from killing enemies/exploring the game world. Not from clicking on an NPC in a town.

Why though. If the game keeps throwing some “class affixes” on your items, and you dont want those affixes, the system did nothing beside being an annoyance.
Let players choose which affixes they want to use, instead of the game making a stupid guess.

As for class items. Which class items would be needed? None.
If the game throws additional Bows at your Melee Rogue, the game is just trying to be annoying.

The game increasing the droprate for bows, for a build that dont want bows, is annoying. You might then be better off playing your barb to get melee weapons for your Rogue which would just be a bad experience all around.

Javazon is just an example. Could be Axazon, Swordazon, Macazon or whatever else too.

This won’t do the work however. AI is needed, to guide the player and point him the way for the build he wants to do.

Games that are timeless, like Chess and poker, could be explained to 10 year olds without problems. You can’t say the same for current Diablos.

It’s good you at least don’t argue simplifying Math would net less players.

Yeah, the game where they use supercomputers to figure out the best moves got easy math. True story.

Sure you can explain Diablo to a 10 year old. Well, most 10 year olds anyway.
You are just trolling as usual :expressionless:

Chess rules aren’t Math based. Poker has very little Math in rules too. Diablo rules on the other side are full of Math which won’t be a problem if the Math is simple, like in HS.

Which rules in Diablo have math in them?

Just open your character sheet for a start.

The character sheets are not rules.
Which Diablo rules have math in them? :woman_facepalming:

It’s part of the rules since the game involves upgrading your character and that’s reflected in the character sheet.

By explaining rules I also mean all rules. Not just - “Hey buddy, click with mouse!”. The whole idea is that the player need to understand the concept of the game which in Diablo involves upgrading your character. This is needed so that the player is “hooked” to the game and we achieve more player base. If a 10 year old just clicks with mouse randomly he won’t be hooked.

That doesn’t make them part of the rules. Rules are stuff like “You can do X”, “You cant do Y” etc.

How to play well in Diablo has some very basic math in it (hence people seeing D3 patchnotes and having a rough idea of what effect they will have ingame). Just like how to play Chess well has some complex probability calculations on exponentially increasing options.

Any child who can learn to play chess can definitely also learn to play Diablo. I dont know* why you think the Diablo games are immensely complex or difficult to understand. But they aren’t.
(*Well, that is not true, I do know. Since it is because you want to make some rant about how AI needs to play games by themselves so the poor players can just watch the game play itself)

You are, for whatever reason, trying to make 10 year olds into morons. Clicking randomly…

It requires no amount of math to play through any of the Diablo campaigns. It requires a tiny amount of very basic math to make reasonable item choices, that a 10 year old might even be able to do at an acceptable level. Well, maybe not an American 10 year old. But others at least.

Absolutely, no. You are either trolling here or have no idea/experience with that. A 4 year old can be hooked to Chess. A 4 year old can NEVER get hooked to Diablo due to missing the concept/full picture of the game and that is because of the complex Math.

I obviously dont know your background, but none of the Diablo games require complex math.

Well, turns out you were wrong, as always

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/byzgzx/comment/eqqiho9/

Do you believe that really? The Math is what prevents Diablo games from being super popular and not isolated reddit cases.

Seriously, if any person wanting an aRPG to have bigger player base doesn’t understand that the main reason for that to not happen is the complex Math need to do a little research on topic since that is the “A” of the alphabet.

Simplified Math is more important than anything else if you want to make a real game like Chess and poker. In that regard Diablo 1 is miles ahead of 2 and 3, with 3 being a complete garbage.

You are absolutely crazy, if there is an important thing to endgame content is the ability to trade items, that gives more reason to player to gring things and stay competitive.

Of course. Trading without bartering (or crafting) are essential for the longevity of the game.

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You are delusional.

At least the sales numbers support your claim!

Trading hurts the endgame content. Makes it too easy to gear up. Removes the fundamental gameplay loop of Kill monster => Get loot to equip.

Smart loot is dividing randomness by 7 (classes), what you propose is dividing randomness by 10 (items slots) multiplied by hundreds (affixes). Not even close.

Gambling, I understand, but crafting, really ?

What’s the difference between “undesirable class affix” and “undesirable affix” ? All ARPG are droping gallion of items with affixes you don’t want for your character, it’s a prime rule of itemization.
What smart loot changes : you won’t get (or at least a lot less) affixes that are 100% useless for your class. That’s it. There’s nothing else to improve here.

As I already explained, all Rogues will want bows, it’s an free slot and it will likely be useful for a pure melee character (more stats ?)
Also, many Barbarian weapons are not suited for Rogues and they won’t have Rogue affixes.

My point stands for those as well.

It’s not a claim. Wanna bet with a delusional man that even the more hardcore player base on reddit despises D3 Math? Are we doing the poll? Or now you’re going to find some delusional arguments as always, for polls being useless?

You forgot the most important one:
Kill monster => Get loot => Check planner

Heh.

I think your discussion more or less revolves about the adagium an interesting game should be easy to play, but hard to master. So yeah you should be reasonably able to just step in and get a feeling for how game plays and works, but if want to become a real master that gets all out of your build you have to get to know about breakpoints for example (or look them up on internet :P) or why damage stacking for just one skill makes so much sense in D3 over spreading it a bit.

Problem with D2 for example after 1.10 became the skills descriptions were lying to you, so you could not really find out in game how things worked without doing the math to a much higher degree and game did not make sense without that extra information. Also making it impossible without more knowledge just based on intuition to decide whether an item would enhance your build too often.