What leveling/item system do you guys like more?
Soft max level cap that is easy to get to followed by infinite levels - Diablo 3
It’s very easy to hit the max level in Diablo 3. Once you hit the max level you start earning paragon levels that keep going infinitely. It makes me think I am running on a treadmill and I start to wonder why I am even running on this “treadmill” in the first place. It’s not very fun to run on treadmills you know? I’d rather run from point A to point B.
Hard max level cap that is easy to get to the 90% point but takes a long time to get max - Diablo 2
It takes a long time to hit the max level in Diablo 2. It is exciting to know that maybe one day I will reach the max level if I keep grinding out the game. It’s a big goal to strive for and when that goal is finally completed for some players. It gives the player a feeling of complete. Even if a player never makes it to the max level. They have a goal to dream about making them want to play more. You finally made it after a long time of grinding.
Items that scale based on your character’s current level. - Diablo 3
When items scale to your character’s level. It takes away from item identity. You don’t feel like you are finding meaningful loot. You know that everything you find will eventually be thrown out because the affix ranges are lower compared to if you were finding the same item at a higher level. Why even have character levels at that point? Everything prior to the max level does not matter. I want to feel like I am building my character from the very start. Not when I hit “max” level. Let’s say that the max level is 40 and Blizzard decides to increase that level cap to 50. With this model of items scaling based on your character level. Everything you did prior to the release of the expansion has been for nothing. Your items are now junk.
Items that have different tiers or have their own stats. - Diablo 2
When there are item tiers and items having their own stat/affix ranges you can start evolving your character from the beginning. With item tiers you could find a low tier item with amazing rolls. Later on you could then upgrade that same item to a higher tier increasing the rolls and base defense/damage depending on what item it is. A legendary can be upgraded but only certain stats like defense/damage will change. It’s unique properties will stay the same. All item tiers should not drop at level 1. It should unlock when your character reaches the level requirement. I think Diablo 2’s system is amazing but should be expanded upon.
Item Tiers unlock based on character level - (Diablo 2 did it by normal nightmare and hell. Not sure if that will be in Diablo 4.)
1 - 100 Tier 1 items unlock
30 - 100 Tier 2 items unlock
60 - 100 Tier 3 items unlock
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I think Diablo 2 did both of these systems better. The hard to hit leveling made you work for a end goal of reaching level 99. When it scales infinitely who really cares. Also Trading was a big part of the game due to the items and how unique they were for each build. Hope they also bring back runewords!
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if there are different item tiers, it has to be more than 3
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Hard lvl cap that takes some time to get to. Somewhere in between D2 and D3 I guess. Maybe more like Grim Dawn.
Makes it easier to create end-game where you know people are at a specific level, and have a specific amount of skill points etc.
Then you can always have a non-power progression system after that… if you want to.
As for items. One version of all items should exist. No scaling, endless or otherwise. No ancients, or +1, +2 etc. versions.
Add a way to upgrade “low lvl” items to end-game quality (attack/defense, and if there are affixes that increases with lvls, like maybe +flat dmg affixes, those too. % stuff would likely not be relevant to upgrade).
Low lvl items should be fairly viable without being upgraded though - just keep the lvl scaling on items reasonable.
I guess in end-game, the items could drop upgraded, in which case there wold be some scaling (pre-max lvl and max lvl, so two tiers), just to avoid unnecessary upgrading of all items at max lvl, which would just be busywork. But still not a bunch of upgrade tiers of the same items.
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i think he meant tier in the meaning of
items dont level with you
items have fix levels, separated in different tiers that drop over time in the game
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That is what I meant at least.
Like you shouldn’t be able to get Staff of Fireballs in a lvl 10 version, a lvl 20 version etc.
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yea, i think that most game devs are simply too lazy for that system today because it requires so many item models
remember PoE, where the item designs just repeated after 3 tiers? XD
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For character development, itemization & tiering D2, everything else (more or less) D3.
I prefer a more casual approach to the topics you covered, and that is why I prefer the way D3 does things. This coupled with the plethora of QoL and graphical improvements make me much happier with D3’s system.
In D2 the character progression was much longer, so when you found a good item you had it a moment in your inventory or stash. The same way when you get an Ancient item with good rolls on D3, I personally got few that only a Primal version would beat and not by much.
D1 & D2 had 3 level of difficulty, D3 have 20, but I don’t think there’s going to have level of difficulty on D4, not that I dislike the idea but looks to me that game developers can bypass this aspect since a moment now.
To switch from Nightmare to Hell was a big move and required lots of farming before doing so, at least D3 had this done better, the power progression is smooth and accessible but in the mean time, many level of difficulty are empty and items are quickly good for salvage.
Most likely D4 will have many tier (like D3) but these tier will be invisible, like an hidden stats on a character. It will most likely be the same with itemization, the scaling will be smooth over the levels.
The good point you bring:
That should definitely be implanted, this is a great feature, even if a player could not be able to loot what he’s looking for during months, at least he would have an item(s) he like to play with for a long time.
Let’s say I loot an item that I like and my character is level 10, what to expect is to proceed to many upgrades until level 40 (which seems to be the max level atm). Let’s say I have to upgrade the it once every 5 levels to make the item follow the character progression, I feel all right with the idea.
I would add, some items should age like a good wine.
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An example from Diablo 2
Bone Helm - 33-36 defense - Normal - Tier 1
Grim Helm - 60-125 defense - Exceptional - Tier 2
Bone Visage - 100-157 defense - Elite - Tier 3
War Hammer - 19 to 29 (24 Avg) - Normal - Tier 1
Battle Hammer - 35 to 58 (46.5 Avg) - Exceptional - Tier 2
Legendary Mallet - 50 to 61 (55.5 Avg) - Elite - Tier 3
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Along with the various level within each prefix/suffix, like weapon damage
Jagged +10-20% Damage Circlets(1), Weapons(1)
Deadly +21-30% Damage Circlets(5), Weapons(5)
Vicious +31-40% Damage Weapons(8)
Brutal +41-50% Damage Weapons(14)
Massive +51-65% Damage Weapons(20)
Savage +66-80% Damage Weapons(26)
Merciless +81-100% Damage Weapons(32)
Ferocious +101-200% Damage Weapons(41)
Cruel +201-300% Damage Weapons(56)
9 levels, which show what it can drop on, what level it can start dropping.
Nothing better than finding a cruel weapon of the vampire at level 56!
Problem is you can’t have this style of itemization with a game that has a 40 level cap and x levels every expansion.
My suspicion is we will see a D3 or WOW style level/itemization system mechanics - not a D2 style level/itemization system.
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The itemisation comes from runes/runewords. There hasn’t been alot of information on this yet but i can imagine it will be similar to as in D2 runes/runewords.
That would be very unfortunate.
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their current take on runes isnt really some kind of core aspect of itemization
more like gems, empowering items
i like the system because its creative
but it doesnt “make” items
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i don’t know what you are trying to get at. If you are on about D4 i guess we will have to wait and see what they say in future updates.
I agree, but I think we are in a minority in this view.
In another thread I stated that it as my thought that fully scoping out all of Sanctuary and creating items for high level play would take far too long for Activision’s liking - Therefore level 40 with a partial Sanctuary and expansions every 1 1/2 to 2 years is my guess.
This has not been said so it is just a guess lol. Is it Activision working on D4 now then? I know they control D3 atm which explains a lot of the flashing lights and strange encounters LOL
Yes, it’s just a guess. I think you already know Activision’s relationship with Blizzard which includes plenty of schedule pressure to support the revenue plans.