Diablo 4 Feedback (From a D2 Former no. 1 HC player)

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EU Forum post: Diablo 4 feedback (From a former D2 No. 1 HC ladder player) - General Discussion - Diablo 3 Forums

Updated: I just want to give some feedback about Diablo 4 I saw that could be changed. To give some history of myself as a Diablo player, I started playing Diablo II in 2001 and have been the No. 1 Us East Hardcore Ladder Druid for multiple ladders over the duration of Diablo II’s lifetime. I beat Diablo I as well as reached Paragon 1400 in Diablo III before I stopped playing. With that said after watching multiple interviews and multiple streamers stream the Diablo 4 demo, there was a few glaring things I’d like to point out that the community would agree upon before a firestorm of negative comments come if they aren’t changed before the release of the game.

  1. Skill cool downs/potion cool downs. To elaborate on why this issue is massive, for starters, many people are saying this looks like a Diablo 3 re-skin when it comes to game mechanics but how I personally feel is these cool downs take away from the playability of the game. If I’m slightly under geared and I have to use all my skills, while they are on cool down what am I supposed to do as a player? Run around in a circle around what I’m trying to defeat? As a player, I want to always be engaged in the game play and not have to constantly wait for my skills to be ready to cast again. I truly feel if you go the route of adding mana potions back in (since you already have health potions), then softcore AND hardcore players will feel more in touch with the game and more drawn to it. For Diablo I and II players, everything that was Diablo III we won’t want to see exist in Diablo IV.
  2. The Barbarian and Druid are way too bulky. They look like WOW characters and need to feel more like realistic human’s and less cartoonish. Take for example the Druid. In Diablo II, he was skinny, tall, and had a signature look with red hair. In Diablo 4, he looks like a dwarf straight from World of Warcraft and I keep mistaking him as the barbarian. Please take into consideration changing the characters to make them look like real humans similar to how the sorceress looks.
  3. Levels. Keep it easy. 1-99 like Diablo II. The paragon levels were boring and redundant and if a bad ARPG player spent their life on Diablo III, eventually they would hit such a high paragon level that they would outmatch a player with a lower paragon level and way better gear. Think about playability. Players want to work towards something and no Diablo fan wants to see paragon return. I promise you that in my 20 years dedicated to the Diablo series, that’s very important.
  4. Slow the game down. I shouldn’t have to take 5 minutes to level my character to max level. During Diablo 2, I spent 18 hour days of grinding getting my Druid to level 97 on hardcore. The mobs were difficult. There was always a sense of, my character might die so I need to be extra prepared. I won’t want to play a game where I can 1 shot bosses even with the best gear. The Diablo community wants a challenge. Look back to a normal lv 20 necromancer from Diablo II fighting Duriel, it’s going to take you a few trips, lots of mana potions, health potions, but once you kill Duriel, it feels awesome getting to Act III.
  5. I feel the monsters are too Diablo 3-like. They seem kind of fake and I was hoping to see them as more menacing. Bigger doesn’t always mean scarier. Take the minion who guards the stones in the stony field. It was a fallen but every normal hardcore character was afraid of him due to his damage outputs.
  6. Trading. Just make it open trading. If you really want to restrict an item, do the top tier ones from say world bosses but don’t mess with anything else. Please.
  7. Drop rates. Don’t make it easy. We all want a challenge. I don’t want a end game character in a day. I want to work hard for it and spend weeks or months getting this gear. Self finding an Enigma from Diablo 2 took literal weeks finding the 3 socket archon plate or mage plate, and then finding the Jah and Ber.
  8. Maps. Diablo 2 was completely RNG which made replayability super fun. Diablo 3 had the same map over and over which made campaign mode awful. All my friends quit D3 it was that bad.
  9. I saw a post about a fast paced game style. Don’t do that. Keep it slow paced. Diablo 1 and 2 were very slow and the point was it was supposed to be hard. We don’t want to see groups of mobs we just mow down.
  10. No greater rifts. In my opinion, stay far away from it. That only introduces power creep and eventually that’s all players will do. Look at Diablo 3 as an example. Everything else is pointless while everyone is just pushing the leader boards attempting to get easy legendary and set drops. It also encourages botting and that’s something nobody wants.
  11. Map overlay. I was really hoping to see a map overlay and not a map in that’s always in the top right cluttering up the screen for players who don’t want to see the map 24/7 for whatever reason or just simply like the overlay map more.
  12. Shared character stash. Diablo 3 got it right. Shared character stashes are a must for the holy grail players.
  13. Single player mode. I know this probably won’t happen due to how the developers are making the game, but hypothetically, what if I live in an area where my internet is slow or I have my laptop and don’t have access to the internet. I feel like there should be some way to play the game offline for those who want to do so. As a hardcore player, I don’t want to lag out in the middle of my game and come back and have my hardcore character who I potentially spent weeks or months on dead because of something I couldn’t control. That would infuriate players causing some of the fan base to quit. I understand it may not be viable, but at least take it into consideration for players who don’t want to be forced to play online if they only like offline single player mode. Players wouldn’t have to deal with the servers going offline at certain times throughout the day or week or whatever the cause my be.
  14. Character classes. In my own opinion. Just make it the Diablo 2 characters because if you try to add the Diablo 3 classes in, there will be a conflict of interest. For example, if you reintroduce the monk, demon hunter, witch doctor, people will call it a Diablo 3 reskin like they did with Diablo Immortal. 2, Character abilities will conflict with Diablo 2’s. If you add in a monk, people are going to be like okay, where is the paladin, and if you add in a demon hunter, the other half of the community will be, where is the amazon and assassin. Diablo 3 was unsuccessful which is why every Diablo fan left it for Path of Exile or went back to Diablo 2 leaving a new generation of younger kids who never experienced Diablo 1 and 2 to play Diablo 3 only knowing that one game in the series. Speaking of realism, there is no such thing as a demon hunter while amazon’s and assassin’s are real. And monks don’t fight. They’re pacifists due to them being Buddhists.

You guys are doing a ton of stuff right but I feel like it was paramount to point out glaring issues that I had to spend time to address so this game can be the most successful Diablo game. If any viewers are reading this, please also bring what I brought up to the Developers attention so we together can make Diablo 4 our dream game based off passion.

*I understand every Diablo fan has a different opinion, but we need to leave the discussion for players who have played all 3 Diablos and not just Diablo 3. Diablo 1 and 2 fans have been waiting for a sequel for 20 years and if this game doesn’t appease them, then the series (and revenue from it) is going to die with the game.

Thanks!

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Thank you for this post. I agree with most of this. Taking out cooldown from potions and adding back in like the belt system like in Diablo 2 will make the game more challenging. But cooldown on skills allows for more active skills to be used during a fight. Yea at lower level we may face difficulty but that is the challenge of being under-geared etc.

But other than that, I agree with the rest. On removing paragon levels, keeping the D2 classes, or even introducing a whole new line up maybe? Drop rates should be lowered. I remember doing the MF runs, which I did enjoy.

Also, I love the direction the Diablo 4 team is taking the game. Thank you for this Diablo 4 Team.

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Sounds like you just want to keep playing Diablo 2 for another twenty years. Great news, you can any do that; you can even play right now.

Calling D2 slow was one of the most ridiculous things I’ve read on this form.

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Areas I felt compelled to agree or disagree =)

I think short CDs can work but agree that long CDs are ridiculous and create builds which warp the game in an odd way. I think the worst fo these was/is Necromancer’s build which was run around, hit cooldowns, and then throws bones at enemies… so you spent a ton of time what? Avoiding enemies while moving around the map… ehhhh

The Barbarian looked fine imho but yeah the Druid seemed a bit too ‘larger than life’

Agree that the 99 systems feels better than the Paragon system even today when I play D2 vs. D3

Rakinishu… that guy was scary especially for non-pet classes ><;

Agree here, don’t make it easy (rain from the sky) but also don’t make the ranges, etc. so big or random that they can be trash.

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Blockquote I think short CDs can work but agree that long CDs are ridiculous and create builds which warp the game in an odd way. I think the worst fo these was/is Necromancer’s build which was run around, hit cooldowns, and then throws bones at enemies… so you spent a ton of time what? Avoiding enemies while moving around the map… ehhhh

So I agree also to an extent to what you are saying. To be honest, I’m somewhat impartial because I think Diablo 3 ruined the CD’s for me as a Diablo player. My biggest concern though is the health potion cool downs primarily because I love to play hardcore. I don’t want to pop a health potion and find myself in an inescapable situation and am helpless because I have to wait 9 more seconds to use a potion again. Then i’ll find myself trying to TP and realize that isn’t immediate either. I still stick by my opinion of not having skill cool downs in the game, but I can totally understand the other side of the argument

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1 million % agree on every point here coming from the same background. Although I do not think this list is all encompassing. There are several other things that could be expanded upon. I am actually working on a pot highlighting those myself. But wanted to voice my opinions here as well.

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Obviously another D2 purist. Seriously GTFO, go wait for a remaster or something that is what you want right? Leave this nostalgia bull$hit and let they do something fresh for once, It’s not 1999 anymore.

If it wasn’t for the success of Diablo 2, Diablo 3 and 4 would never have happened. If you’ve noticed, the developers are basing Diablo 4 off Diablo 2. The skill point allocations, the skills themselves, the campfire when choosing the character, the characters like Druid, sorceress and Barbarian, the skill trees. When you said it’s not 1999, that’s true, but this being designed as a sequel to Diablo 2. I had said above, we need to leave discussion for players who have played Diablo 1,2 and 3 to weed out young kids and teenagers who don’t know how to articulate a sentence so by default you tell me to “GTFO” While providing feedback from the current Diablo 1 and 2 player base.

A remaster is unlikely to happen because David Brevik, the man who designed Diablo, stated that the game was designed to fit on an old school monitor and Blizzard would have to redo the entire engine and that a remaster is extremely unlikely due to the in-game mechanics.

Not to be alienating, but if you can’t communicate at a college level English level, please stay off my thread while respectful people can give their feedback to the Diablo 4 developers.

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You’re funny, opens a thread with a ridiculous argument of authority “FROM A D2 FORMER NO. 1 HC PLAYER” hard cringe. Assume I’m a kid and assume I haven’t played D2 or D3 which I most likely played way more than you have.

And no this is not a sequel to D2 it’s a new IP sequel to D3 and it’s trying to copy successful systems from multiple games including PoE. And thank God it’s now trying to be D2 remaster.

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Define ‘unsuccessful’. One of the best selling PC games of all time? Yeah, total failure. Or do you mean “didn’t exactly cut and paste everything from D2” unsuccessful?

Face facts. The vast majority of the D3 playerbase never played D1 & D2; they purchased D3 because it was a Blizzard title. And D4 is being made off of the back of D3’s unrivalled commercial success.

Yeah, what you really want is to be able to restore your HC character whenever it dies. Offline mode ain’t happening. Get over it.

Yeah, they should totally build the game around the needs and wants of players who do 18 hour days.

Have you seen the monsters in D2 recently? Adventure Time is scarier. Seriously, would any four year old today be scared of fighting The Butcher in D2? 'Fresh meat!" Giggle.

Nope. Slaying monsters and looting their corpses - playing the game - should be the number one way to progress your character and gear. Limited trading only.

Again, nope. If I want to play a build, I don’t want to spend weeks or months (of 18 hours a day…) having to play other builds trying to get the pieces I want to play the build I want.

I like what I’ve seen of D4 so far, but things can change. I’d encourage the devs to look at the present, and to the future, instead of the past.

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I never get this argument, monsters in D2 are not scary at all, everything looks like it’s made out of wax.

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Define ‘unsuccessful’. One of the best selling PC games of all time? Yeah, total failure. Or do you mean “didn’t exactly cut and paste everything from D2” unsuccessful?

if Diablo 3 was successful, Diablo Immortal wouldn’t have been booed at last years blizzcon opening up a year of controversy for Blizzard. Again, if Diablo 3 was successful, They wouldn’t take any mechanics out of Diablo 2 and added them into Diablo 4 but that’s what the player base wants. Diablo 3 vanilla was launched with the idea of taking months to get your character progression up to par to beat Diablo on Inferno. Diablo 3 was so bad, they had to add in adventure mode for replayability, they took out the difficulties, made drops way too easy to get, you could level your character up in literally 2 minutes to 70. The list goes on and on. No trading, the auction house, sets being stronger than uniques (Legendaries). It sounds to me you never played the original release of Diablo 3. The rest of the points you made regarding my post missed the point I was making numerous times. Look at every other Diablo 4 thread as an example, the players want offline play. They want open trading. This isn’t about you. This is about what the community wants. Diablo 3 was such a failure they cancelled their second expansion.

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Pretty much agree with everything DeathBringer mentioned. Though I think that the level cap should be 100 and not 99 :stuck_out_tongue:

But I’m somewhat for and against the offline part.

I’m for it because my internet sucks, and where I currently live I can’t play Diablo 3 because I autodisconnect the moment I start it. Good riddance perhaps. And for those who like mods; having it online only would ruin it for them. Which may be one of many causes why Diablo 3 isn’t that active anymore.

But I’m for Online only because editing you character with good items and level isn’t really that easy with 3rd party programs at an online game. I remember when my brother who wanted to play with me and my friend and didn’t want us to start over to play with him so he cheated himself a character at our level with some ok equipment. Didn’t feel all that good.

I’m also hoping that they bring back the levelup stat from diablo 1 and diablo 2. Diablo 3’s stats sucks. And I’m hoping that every class only have regular Mana, and not spirit, fury or whatever.

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i agree with most of your points.

I feel for the poor devs that might read all those threads… its so many of them…

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So because the barbarian is more muscular he is unrealistic. I for one dont want to play a skinny barb, that makes no sense. Wielding heavy 2handers takes strength and with more strength its only normal you have more muscles.

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Regarding cooldown. What’s the difference between waiting for your mama to fill to cast a spell and waiting a cooldown. Both you do nothing in between.

You are not support to use all cooldown skills. There is a good reason why some skills need cooldown.

  1. they can be fill with effects and if cast freely will lag the screen or fill screen with effects that you cannot see anything, like PoE.

  2. it allows choice of “over the top” powerful spell and attacks or spammable simpler attacks

  3. cooldown skills Add a layer of tactical approach as you have to decide when to activate them.

There is a good argument of some skills have way too much cooldown like land of the dead, but reducing cooldown is not same as removing cooldown.

There should be a good mix between Spammable
skill & cooldown skill.

I think barb is okay, Druid’s need to lose some weight and also made slightly smaller. It’s rediculous that he become smaller when he turned to a wolf.

Trading. Generally disagree. Free trading will means people will simply pay their way to the top. It’s third party pay2win.trading should have some limit.

Paragon. I am surprised the amount of people that think playing longer shouldn’t be reward with more levels. Playing longer give the most level seems the most fair system. That’s far better than being luckiest in finding gears, or pay for gears. If you said the most skillful players should be most reward, then I think you are playing the wrong game. Playing better and making good builds should and has advantages in gaining levels, and play time should also be a factor, and that’s comings from someone that has average to below average playtime

Sure you can make an argument that “no lifer” shouldn’t have an advantage over people with work and responsibility. But that’s really no difference than saying people who have more time to train for basketball shouldn’t have advantages from someone who don’t have time to train.

Slower pace. Most pushing builds are not speed builds. When you takes 1-2 mins to down mobs, 500% movement speed has no meaning.
Speed builds are fast. That’s the whole idea. People can decide if they want speed or damage. I have no issue with pace of D3.

You like slow pace, then play a build with slow pace.

GR. Unlike greater rift. It’s good to know how far your build can push. In D2 after I beat Baal, why do I need to be more powerful? If I pushed how do I know much i am more powerful. GR provide a good gauge as well as the moving carrot to push further. The problem with D3 isn’t GR imo, it’s that there need to Ben more rewarding activities to do outside do greater rifts. Again more content not equal remove content.! A scaling game mode should be available for D4 with leaderboard.

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I was taken aback a bit by the druid’s appearance at first, especially when I remembered how thin the druid in Diablo 2 was. But I also remembered that Druids are supposedly kin to the Barbarians, so honestly I’m not too bothered by this.

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Uh oh look at the Diablo 2 discounting going on in this post. Diablo 2 was really good, and should be the-staple game to study on what to do right. Diablo 3 should be the staple for the handful of things done right, and the big batch of things to not do.

Example
monsters look really fake and diablo 3 like in diablo 4 so far. It’s really a reskin monster-wise so far in it’s alpha state or w/e it’s at.

look at how diablo 4’s chars ‘slow jog’ just like diablo 3.
The running animation isn’t a run like diablo 2, it’s a jog, waiting for a moveskill or mount to be pressed instead of faster run walk gear.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting smart design decisions from diablo 2’s devs applied in 2019+. There is nothing wrong with IDing those, talking about them, getting them to the current d4 team’s table. Like at all, it’s ok to mention Diablo 2 here, this is a safe place for development, not a “bash diablo 2 because it was the best” place.

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I have six very important point that i rly want in a d4… i want it to be so much scary that its gonna make me **** in my pants… bring back a skill tree mechanic like we got in d2 and the tomes of d1… bring back faster caster rating and get rid of all those wow kind of cooldown everywhere not juste on pots, bring back the mana pots… AND I NEED TO BE ABLE TO SET AND SELECT MY SKILLS ON THE F KEYS AND THROW MY SKILLS ONLY WITH MY MOUSE LIKE IN D1 AND D2, this last point is the most important to my opinion, when you like a game series and you get used to it you get good playing the way it play you should never change it! Thats the principal points that they absolutly need to bring back in a next Diablo game, Diablo series have alway been playing this way and this should never change…! Did you saw lot of button changing since the first starcraft, since the first assassin’s creed, since the begining of wow, since the begining of gta, since the begining of what ever the game except D3!? the answer is no!? Thank you for thoses who take those things in concideration. Except that we like the good graphiscs of course…

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My biggest issues with Diablo III had to do with character progression, and I’m hoping progression will be more like Diablo II.

In Diablo II what you did early on in the game mattered. You could find some combinations of gear that you might keep for 10-20 levels, your skill choices made a lasting difference, as you leveled you could see yourself getting stronger relative to enemies, whether it be enemies in the last zone becoming obsolete, or the next boss finally becoming killable. I like that there is no threshold preventing you from attempting end game content. Any time you finish an act you can enter the next place whether you’re ready for it or not. The level cap isn’t some threshold dividing levelers from end gamers. You don’t have to be level 99 to equip end game gear. And for that matter you aren’t trying to continuously reacquire the same item with slightly more stats this time forever.

In Diablo III, between how fast you level and how bad outdated gear is, you’ll often have items that last you less than 10 minutes. With enemies scaling to your level, you never feel a progression of strength relative to enemies either. You’re level 10? They’re level 10. You’re level 20? They’re level 20. This means you’re always ready for the next enemy, it won’t be difficult because you advanced early, it will all stay just as easy. But the worst thing for me is that progression doesn’t really start until you’re max level. Level 70 is a threshold to end game content, and nothing you do before then matters. You can’t find any BiS prior to max level. I don’t think it should be so clear cut “you have to be this level to really start your journey”. I’m okay with more than three difficulties, but I prefer the old design of “X difficulty is X hard” rather than “we scale to you so you can do anything, and if you want it harder we’ll keep adding a slightly higher number to the difficulty and let you get the same gear with slightly more stats than before”, with no end in sight because your level never stops, gear potential and max torment get increased every now and then, so it’s just an exact repeat of the same grind, scaling up, and scaling, and scaling.

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I don’t agree with everyone you said but I am glad you said it.

With the way the skill trees and itemization are in D4, it makes me sad to think about it in the context of what you said.

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