Diablo 4 - 6 Skill Disaster

Yes, please let there be curses or stuns or some way to manipulate monsters besides damaging them in D4. In D3 it seems like basically every ability is a self buff or damage and it really limits how players can manipulate a battlefield. Boring.

Furthermore, it limits cheeky things I can do like swapping to a teleport charge staff, hotkeying an auto attack, or creating a runeword that gives my sorceress +1 to zeal. All of these build options are just not possible in D3 and unlikely with 6 skill limit - boooring.

Also, the resources are always too plentiful in D3. Healing, “mana”, whatever. Why do I need access to 8 rare slots that can give me 100 healing/s at lvl 10 or whatever. And I hope that resource management and mana potions come back as well as removing mana pots and replacing them with resource generators was boring. Doesn’t make a lot of sense for good gameplay.

These two are some of the biggest reasons D2 is way better than D3 or what D4 is appearing to be imo.

I really wish that the franchise would go back to D2 perspective and work with the scale that D2 uses. It makes it easier to put more monsters on the screen (curses in a game where only ~10 monsters can appear on your screen cause you and the monsters are so big hardly makes sense), to manipulate the monsters because of said larger field of view, and it looks better.

Diablo III characters can cast blind, curse, stun, freeze, fear, weaken, slow, hex, pull in and charm. There is a good reason why Bane of Trapped was the most used legendary gem in Diablo 3 :rofl:

Do you even play Diablo 3?

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Do you really need to ask that? It’s blatantly obvious he doesn’t and that really shows from his statements bashing D3.

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Tell me that you don’t play D3 without saying you don’t play D#.

In D2 you can only see the two skills that you currently have to be chosen to be activated when you use the Left or Right Mouse Button, but you can have way, way more skills (up to 16 Skills that are supported in the Option Menu), they are just not being show to be active (and that excludes Belt Slots for Potions etc, which were an additional 4 buttons).

Or did you play your Characters in D2 with just 2 Skills?

You did not need to assign all these “Active Skill Slots” in D2, but they were so abundant that barely any build you play would use them all.

I think that there should be separate Skill Slots for oSkills + things like “Command Follower”.

You could have 7 Active Skill Slots (for your Characters Active Skills from the Skill Tree) + 10 other Skill Slots, but in the latter ones you can only put oSkills, but not Skills from your Characters “Skill Book / Skill List / Skill Tree”.

This can be balanced by oSkills overall being less powerful or having Cooldowns or Charges.

For example if there is a Legendary Item that gives other Classes access to Fireball or Firewall as an oSkill, …

https://imgur.com/n0oRgMG

… a Barbarian for example could only put these Skills on the oSkill Hotbar and Fireball would have for example 3 Charges and no Resource Costs, and Firewall would have a Cooldown and also no Resource Costs.

The same Barbarian could not put Skills like Hammer of the Ancients on the “oSkill Hotbar”, but only on the “7 Active Skills Hotbar”.

So you literally agree with him that even CC is a dmg self buff? :woman_facepalming:
And arguably the main reason people use CC.

Having more oSkills than Skills would feel really weird imo. No matter if those skills are less powerful.
But having 1-2 skill slots for “item skills” could be great.

You could only get oSkills from item, eventually only from Special Items like Legendaries, Uniques and Sets, so you had to equip the right items first to use these oSkills.

When equip a Legendary or Unique were one of its Special Properties is an oSkill, you have to sacrifice something else…

… so you are not compelled to fill up your “oSkill Hotbar” by any means.

CC can always be perceived as a damage buff when it keeps you from dying. You can’t DPS when dead, after all.

Citing FFXI again, Red Mage was basically deemed the “debuffer class” and had spells that could Slow, Paralyze, Blind, Poison, Sleep, Dispel, Gravity (-EVA/Move speed), lower DEF or ATK, and a few other things generally tied to XI. The class didn’t get any useful AoE versions, either, so it was pretty much guaranteed you’d be spending 2-3s per debuff (even with fast cast traits + global cooldown) on every single mob, without accounting for resists or wear-offs. Now, some might perceive this role as useful, but I would remind that resistances and outright immunity were a thing and no one really expected debuffs in high enemy number situations, either. This effectively made the class boring when you couldn’t do what you were supposed to be strong at. And with I imagine everyone knowing how game metas work, no one will want someone that’s 3rd or 4th string at their secondary strength. Unfortunately, because the class had limited healing, people decided it would be shoehorned into a healer role because very few actually wanted to be healers, instead.

Far as that community went, I was probably one of a few of a small handful of others that routinely spoke out about the class’ poor state. Naturally, there was opposition from those who didn’t want to see a healer shortage or those that took advantage of said shortage to gear other jobs. As time went on, it became increasingly obvious RDM’s healing was inadequate while none of the other issues were addressed. Funnily enough, when SE implemented Blue Mage, they wound up incorporating a lot of the suggestions myself and others had made over the years, including things like damaging spells having secondary debuff effects (and effects RDM didn’t not have access to at all), spells that cast multiple debuffs at once, AoE (de)buffs, and then some. RDM was never cured of its so-called justified mediocrity as a jack of all trades, and little by little, people gave up on it. In the rare case SE acquiesced like with the Temper spell (self double attack rate up), people whined because it couldn’t be used on others fully cognizant that RDM’s melee game was in the toilet despite people like me pointing out they needed access to better gear, traits, and new things to help make it work.

So, why do I bring this up? Because I rather doubt anyone will be playing a build that cycles through multiple debuffs per mob pack, assuming one class can even manage more than a couple natively. What’s more likely will be the secondary effect route (similar to how cold often slows/freezes), with the compromise being those skills won’t do as much damage as straight damage counterparts. Maybe there will be some items or passives that shake things up, but those have their respective costs compared to other options. And frankly, that’s fine. Even citing D2 as some paragon of “how it’s done” falls apart when you remember mobs and players could only have 1 curse on them (or more accurately, an overhead effect) at a time. Auras were better about this, but they were also more buff focused than debuff oriented even if Conviction is justifiably one of the best auras in the game.

Basically, don’t expect too many debuff only spells, let alone spinning that as an excuse for why shortcut settings should basically be unlimited. Personally, I look at it a bit deeper seeing folks hoping for more one-point-wonder skills (alongside cross-class theft) and yet more +skill abuse.

Of course. Everything is about dmg in the end, in an A-RPG.
But in D3, it is a literal dmg buff.

The only thing he clearly plays is the forum.

As much as I love Travis Barker and Blink were the soundtrack to my youth, I think as a drummer and musician you have to admit, the best metal drummers using huge kits do outskill him.

But I do concede even with a small kit Travis is an amazing drummer, but most don’t care to appreciate what is going on in the metal scene.

Also buttons can’t express what drums can, speed and timings are very much simplified where as drums are practically connected to exactly what a human being can do with the sticks, after a while the analogy starts to fall apart.

I still think Diablo needs 8 skills though. I think the game should be complicated enough with every class to require a core kit of 6 abilities and the extra 2 will be where we define our class and build. It would be nice if there were multiple options for core type abilities like a movement skill for dodging or swapping a slow for a stun as cc, or class flavour like necromancers replacing such abilities with summons.

But a basic rogue should require imo for the game to be hard:

  1. single target
  2. aoe
  3. cc
  4. movement ability
  5. dmg buff
  6. Ultimate

And this isn’t including a basic attack which I think we should probably have also. So 8 skills and lmb rmb for basic attack and move.

My reasoning for this is thinking of a play by play of combat. If I’m not required to use:

  1. a single target ability for moments with hard large hp bar single target mobs
  2. aoe for moments with hordes running at me
  3. cc to slow a pack down or stun them in panic moments
  4. movement ability to either reposition to priority mobs or escape from hard situations
  5. dmg buff to to take out uniques and even harder special mobs that will kill you if not dealt with properly
  6. Ultimate cause it’s super cool and sometimes it’s awesome to throw down and feel poowerful having saved it for a screen full of mobs.

The game should be this hard.

The extra 2 abilities would allow me to have more cool animations and more ways to kill mobs and allow me to actually define my class instead of everyone falling into this basic 6 slot cookie cutter build I described above.

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Thats simular to how lost ark does it.

It rly depends how the skills work and the cooldowns. The amount of skill which is good depend on the combat. 6 skills could be fine if they all “active” skills (used in combat). Like not auras or like buff which are just there. A extra skill could also maybe be obtained through the paragon board?

I also believe having 1-2 skill slot for “none active” or class specific is a good idea. Like druid transform, a speed buff for rouge, aura for pally/sader and 2 skill slots which could be used for any skill for wizz just because they are casters etc. I think that would make the classes feel more different.

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Yeah, 1-2 additional skill slots beyond the absolutely required is part of what allows us to create interesting builds. Choosing some aspect of combat we want to focus our character toward.

Not only would it be nice, it would be a requirement. If we dont have multiple options in each skill category to choose from, the game doesn’t qualify as an A-RPG anymore.

I agree with most of the post.
But noooo! Please. Kill the Ultimate concept with fire.

No skills should be better than others by design.

That is the mistake they made in D3. The devs thought that because you had to make harder decision with just 6 Skill Slots, it makes the game automatically better.

While it is true that you have to make harder decisions, I don’t think that it made the game better since it gutted too much “possibility”, freedom and choice.

With 7 Skill Slots you still had to make hard enough decisions while still being able to add some of your personal flavor to your build.

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No, that wasn’t the line of thinking at all. We have video proof of JAY wilson saying D2 had the natural set up of 6 keys. That is why the went with 6. Not sure what that 7th was for in some old 2008 footage though. It really wasn’t about having 6 to make harder choices to have a better game.

Pretty sure they used that exact argument, about 6 skills offering harder decisions than 7.

They had made a forum post about it some years back. However it was on the old forums, so the original post itself is no longer available.

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker/ Official Forums)

Going to echo a similar response I gave to a thread that asked this same question a few months ago. Apologies for the overlap, but the answer hasn’t changed since then. :)

So! No current plans to increase the 6-skill limit. We still feel that 6 is a good number, enough to give you flexibility in your build choices, but not too much to where you don’t have to make thoughtful decisions about what you put on your bar. (We actually had 7 skills available for a pretty substantial period of time before Diablo III shipped; however, after lots of testing and feedback rounds, we reduced the number to 6. So, this is definitely something we’ve not only considered, but also evaluated heavily in the actual game environment.)

We know that some players may disagree with that approach (example: the OP). Totally cool, but let me turn the question back on you and then add a few more, because learning why you prefer one gameplay feature over another is super meaningful. Also, sometimes it can be pretty fun, too.

  • How is having only six skill lots negatively impacting your gameplay experience right now? If you can cite specific examples, even better!
  • On the flip side, how would having an extra skill slot improve your game experience?
  • If you had a 7th skill slot, what additional spells or abilities would you add to your bar (on top of the builds you use currently)?

Note that players will get a 4th passive slot at level 70.

Taken from:
https://www.diablofans.com/news/47900-7th-skill-slot-will-not-happen-the-socarrat-of

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The Web Archive / Wayback Machine is also a way you can find these old posts:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140108004556/http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11160555945

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That’s something I was not aware of.

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yeah, there are several snapshots of that particular forum thread (page 1) made over several years, see here in case you are interested:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140101000000*/http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11160555945

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