Diablo 3 requires a final balance patch

[Dimlhugion-1109]

@anon30358639

This is not true.

The reason why I asked if you had any experience with programming, is because there are two different perspectives: layman, and insider.

A layman might look at a helicopter crashed into a tree, and go “well, whoever the pilot was, they dun goofed up to get that result.” And that would technically be true! Crashing into a tree is absolutely not recommended procedure when piloting a helicopter.

An insider though, might make more educated guesses as to why that helicopter crashed. Is it military or non-military? Are we in an active war zone, or a civilian’s backyard? Is there any evidence of damage or trauma to the tree, the helicopter, or the surrounding environment? Is it even (or was it even) operational?

There’s the layman’s perspective of “I don’t understand why we even pay people when they mess up something so easy” and then there’s the insider’s perspective of “I literally do this for a living, don’t tell me how easy or otherwise my job really is.”

The end result is still the same, but the work required to correct everything moving forward is often way harder than any one person ever fully realizes.

@Shadout-2849

Luckily that is not a factor in balance.

Games absolutely get balanced due to difficulty concerns, and said concerns are absolutely subjectively oriented towards the human condition.

@Shadout-2849

the exact thing they should not do.

Genuine question: do you have any experience running a for-profit business?

@MicroRNA-1507

postponing balance changes for solving the cheating problem makes no sense to me.

You don’t base your foundation on a swamp.

If the leaderboards are compromised, arguing for using them as a barometer for which classes need balancing is not a structurally sound argument.

And, for that matter, which leaderboards are we even talking about? There are leaderboards for all sorts of things, not just GR’s.

@anon30358639

we don’t know how crappy Blizzard’s coding is.

And neither do you.

@anon30358639

It’s very typical of the proprietary software world. I like my odds.

You have no real working knowledge of how the programming works, though. When I asked you if you had any experience, if you had given me a response that implied considerable knowledge I would have taken you at your word. You could have said “I’ve coded my own games” or you could have said “I’ve got programming certs” or “I’ve got/am studying for degreees in comp sci” or even “I’ve made a few mods for Skyrim.” And I would have taken you at your word because why would you lie?

But instead, you said, and I quote you here:

@anon30358639

@Dimlhugion-1109

Before I presume too much, let me ask you, genuinely: do you have any experience with programming?

A tiny bit, but not a lot, no. I do however have 15 years IT experience, including dealing with developers on issues with software, and beta testing too.

You’ve had 15 years experience asking people to turn their computer off, and then back on, before escalating their ticket to senior IT who then does a bit of Google searching before finally escalating the ticket once more to junior coders.

That’s not just me being intentionally glib or dismissive, that’s also me illustrating exactly why you can’t just “assume” you know more than someone else. I know literally nothing about what actually happens in IT. But when you say you have little to no programming experience, I DO know that you don’t understand this particular topic.

[anon30358639]

@Dimlhugion-1109

An insider though, might make more educated guesses as to why that helicopter crashed. Is it military or non-military? Are we in an active war zone, or a civilian’s backyard? Is there any evidence of damage or trauma to the tree, the helicopter, or the surrounding environment? Is it even (or was it even) operational?

Having ASD and ADHD, that is how my brain works. I’m hyper-analytical.

@Dimlhugion-1109

And neither do you.

Example: Can’t increase stash size on consoles cos it’s a shared stash that every player can see…yeah, that’s a gem of a design and great coding. NG globes on console, great design and coding. Should I go on?

@Dimlhugion-1109

“I’ve got/am studying for degreees in comp sci”

LOL! I’ve worked with a guy that did a comp sci degree on a helpdesk. he’d been there 6 months when I started. Within 2 months it was obvious that I was the helpdesk leader. My knowledge simply outclassed him. Degrees are WORTHLESS in the real world.

@Dimlhugion-1109

You’ve had 15 years experience asking people to turn their computer off, and then back on, before escalating their ticket to senior IT who then does a bit of Google searching before finally escalating the ticket once more to junior coders.

yeah, 8 years as a level 3 sysadmin…,onyer bike mate.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Dimlhugion-1109

@MicroRNA-1507

postponing balance changes for solving the cheating problem makes no sense to me.

You don’t base your foundation on a swamp.

If the leaderboards are compromised, arguing for using them as a barometer for which classes need balancing is not a structurally sound argument.

And, for that matter, which leaderboards are we even talking about? There are leaderboards for all sorts of things, not just GR’s.

I am discussing GR leaderboards. Irrespective of cheaters, the class specific leaderboards give an estimate of relative build strength. I proposed a simple and conservative method to balance that will positively impact game balance.

I thought it was clear I was discussing GRs as that is where class set specific leaderboards.

@MicroRNA-1507

@Dimlhugion-1109

@MicroRNA-1507

class set specific leaderboards?

First, solve the botting/hacking problem. Then, we can use leaderboards as a metric for gauging where we have balance concerns.

In terms of fixing cheating, I wish Blizzard did more; however, postponing balance changes for solving the cheating problem makes no sense to me.

Blizzard (and players for that matter) have the data for the class specific leaderboards. A developer can change the damage modifier on class sets.

If a class set is 6 GR tiers below, one could start by giving it a 3 GR tier boost in terms of damage. I realize that damage is not the sole modifiet that determines GR progresdion but that is aconservative start to balance.

[Dimlhugion-1109]

@anon30358639

I’m hyper-analytical.

So, analyze why it might be more complicated than it appears.

@anon30358639

Example: Can’t increase stash size on consoles cos it’s a shared stash that every player can see…yeah, that’s a gem of a design and great coding. NG globes on console, great design and coding. Should I go on?

You point to a helicopter crashed in a tree. You say “it’s very simple, just don’t crash”

I retort, “have you ever flown a helicopter before?”

And you dismiss it with “look it’s very simple. You see that tree? Don’t hit it”

Round and round we go on this circular logic train…

@anon30358639

I’ve worked with a guy that did a comp sci degree on a helpdesk. he’d been there 6 months when I started. Within 2 months it was obvious that I was the helpdesk leader. My knowledge simply outclassed him. Degrees are WORTHLESS in the real world.

You’re taking this WAY too personal. I asked you a very simple question: do YOU, YOURSELF, have ANY experience writing code, in the REAL WORLD?

Your response, and I now quote ME quoting YOU once more:

@Dimlhugion-1109

you said, and I quote you here:

@Dimlhugion-1109

Before I presume too much, let me ask you, genuinely: do you have any experience with programming?

A tiny bit, but not a lot, no. I do however have 15 years IT experience, including dealing with developers on issues with software, and beta testing too.

Degrees are worthless until some layman observes a problem that should be within IT’s scope to fix, points at YOU, and says “listen, I worked next to someone who learned IT as a side hustle while baking pizzas for Domino’s, it’s not hard, just FIX the problem 4head”

@anon30358639

8 years as a level 3 sysadmin

Again, you’re missing the point because your ego feels bruised. And for what? It’s not like we know each other IRL. We’re not gonna meet downtown at midnight and have a Zoolander-esque walk-off. It’s not like Krum’s going to barge in here and judge us harshly for not following the Secret Of Steel. It’s a low-traffic forums for a game in maintenance mode. The only stakes lower than this are from amputated cows.

But within this specific context, you’re way out of your element. And that’s honestly fine! Nobody knows everything.

@MicroRNA-1507

I am discussing GR leaderboards. Irrespective of cheaters, the class specific leaderboards give an estimate of relative build strength. I proposed a simple and conservative method to balance that will positively impact game balance.

I thought it was clear I was discussing GRs as that is where class set specific leaderboards.

Your entire premise is that “if one set is 6 GR’s lower in leaderboard performance, that set needs a boost” but how do you parse that power difference? Do you just assume the first X amount of slots are cheaters and entirely omit them from your data? Do you try to normalize them a la the “Weekly Report” that sometimes gets posted here? Do you assume EVERYONE cheats and just take the boards at face value?

You proposed a simple and conservative method that over simplifies and doesn’t fix the problem. We need a game plan, not just “pick a number and see what happens.”

My comment about “which leaderboard” wasn’t meant to be taken literally. It was intended to remind you that someone who wants to get first clear per season leveling 3 gems to 75, isn’t going to care very much about top-spot GR placement. They’re going to instead focus on leveling speed and efficient GR clears relative to gem upgrades.

[Jazz-2357]

@anon30358639

Having ASD and ADHD, that is how my brain works.

And all these years I’ve wasted trying to convince you to play other builds and classes than DH Shadow Impale.
(To avoid any misunderstandings, it’s my impression that you have a great working brain and mind).

@anon30358639

Can’t increase stash size

It’s even the same in D4

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Dimlhugion-1109

Your entire premise is that “if one set is 6 GR’s lower in leaderboard performance, that set needs a boost” but how do you parse that power dif

There is no perfect system; however, the inability to achieve perfection should never interfere with making positive changes.

There are cheaters. Different class sets (especially underperforming sets ) have less players and often do not hit their highest capabilities.

One can not correct for all differences. That is why I suggest a conservative divide by 2 approach.

If a class set is 6 GRs underperforming, it has less players and presumably cheaters). That is why I would increase that 6 piece set bonus by 3 GRs worth of damage.

That is a game plan. My suggestion is simply changing the damage modifier number of specific six piece sets. That is far easier as illustrated by game history.

Your idea of waiting to fix cheating before doing balance changes is illogical to me. Even when the game was more actively supported, cheating was rampant and never fixed. If they did not fix it then, why do you think they would fix it now?

Even if you could get rid of every cheater tomorrow, you still have the issue with underperforming sets tend to be less played.

[Alexismad-1310]

@MicroRNA-1507

I am discussing GR leaderboards. Irrespective of cheaters, the class specific leaderboards give an estimate of relative build strength. I proposed a simple and conservative method to balance that will positively impact game balance.

The problem with using GR LB’s to balance the game is the data is not relevant for 2.5+ years. This seasons’ LB’s apply to when they use the “open cube slots” theme again. Every seasonal theme affects builds different and therefore needs its own individual balance patch. We are seeing it this season as they balanced the game around shards and the LB’s are all over the place.

They need to do a PTR before each theme if they want to get some sort of relative balance.

[MicroRNA-1507]

Balance should be based on non-season leaderboards.

The seasonal themes add too much variability in which builds benefit.

[Alexismad-1310]

@MicroRNA-1507

Balance should be based on non-season leaderboards.

In theory that sounds good, but the vast majority of players do not play non-season, so balancing the game around an incredibly small part the player base doesn’t make sense. Blizz has already shown they do not care about non-season as that mode does not have Altar, Visions, and their best attempt at balancing thus far was based around Shards meaning they are not concerned about non-season balance.

Optimally, the game should be relatively balanced in both modes, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen or be possible, so, personally, I feel they should balance the game around the mode that is dominating play time.

@MicroRNA-1507

The seasonal themes add too much variability in which builds benefit.

Which is why I said this:

@Alexismad-1310

They need to do a PTR before each theme if they want to get some sort of relative balance.

Once they have done a run through on each theme, they just need to reapply the balance for that theme. Will it be perfect? No. But it will be better than the mess we are going to have for all but one theme.

[OShogun-1317]

I’m just waiting for the D3 remaster tbh. I mean, if The Last of Us is old enough to get a remaster, so is D3.

[anon30358639]

@Dimlhugion-1109

So, analyze why it might be more complicated than it appears.

Sure. Lack of funding. Lack of direction. Blizzard doesn’t even play their own games.

@Dimlhugion-1109

And you dismiss it with “look it’s very simple. You see that tree? Don’t hit it”

People can tell what are crap things without understanding the underlying mechanics you know.

@Dimlhugion-1109

Degrees are worthless until some layman observes a problem that should be within IT’s scope to fix

There are many comp sci grads working on helpdesks. From my personal experiences, none of them are any good at the job.

Dealing with cheating is simple. Run ban runs EVERY day. EVERY day. If a season goes for 3 months, which is 90 days, and someone has been banned 90 days, it’s going to cost them a lot of money to buy another licence. And if you keep doing that…eventually those losers will grow a brain and move on.

@Jazz-2357

And all these years I’ve wasted trying to convince you to play other builds and classes than DH Shadow Impale.

I’m a great believer in playing or doing what you enjoy. As an example, this week’s CR. Has plenty of DPS but is weaker than a wet paper bag. I don’t have the patience or liking to play that type of CR. Did 3 runs, assessed it and said screw that crap. I don’t need the mats, so will pass on it.

@Jazz-2357

To avoid any misunderstandings, it’s my impression that you have a great working brain and mind

It has dulled with age sadly.

@Jazz-2357

It’s even the same in D4

Really? Probably makes sense since they probably repurpose as much code as possible to cut costs and increase profits.

@Alexismad-1310

The problem with using GR LB’s to balance the game is the data is not relevant for 2.5+ years

Yes, this is true. In theory, Blizzard can turn off any themes and balance test accordingly. If the themes were balanced, then balance would remain, but alas, the themes are NOT balanced. I mean, ethereals theme and s6 impale as a clear example.

@OShogun-1317

I’m just waiting for the D3 remaster tbh. I mean, if The Last of Us is old enough to get a remaster, so is D3.

I like your enthusiasm, but imho, it is misplaced. Also, remember the warcraft remaster (horrid by all accounts), darkening of tristram.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Alexismad-1310

Which is why I said this:

@Alexismad-1310

They need to do a PTR before each theme if they want to get some sort of relative balance.

Blizzard will not do this. It would be way too much effort for each recyccled theme.

I would argue :

1. Introduce altar to non-season
2. Balance the game based on non-season

[Paladin-2801]

The only balance patch needed is to nerf the Necro because it’s a bit sad to see every single guide being about “how to best support your necros” rather than actual gameplay. Other than that, I’m fairly happy with the balance, including the non-seasonal one.

[KEA-2181]

There is even a song about that! Seriously! Strange how the lyrics match…

Depeche Mode – Get the Balance Right! Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

Depeche Mode - Get the Balance Right - YouTube

[OShogun-1317]

@anon30358639

I like your enthusiasm, but imho, it is misplaced. Also, remember the warcraft remaster (horrid by all accounts), darkening of tristram.

D2R was pretty great. Warcraft remaster was an anomaly due to a series of bad decisions. I don’t even want a full on remaster of D3, the actual UX is already modern. Just some new models and textures, cause if you zoom into a character in D3, it looks like a ps1 model.

[anon30358639]

@OShogun-1317

D2R was pretty great.

the original game was pretty good. Would be pretty hard to stuff that up!

@OShogun-1317

I don’t even want a full on remaster of D3

I don’t want a remaster either. I do want all builds properly balanced, as well as fixes for the console platforms, which have been ignored by Blizzard for the entire life of their release.

[OShogun-1317]

@anon30358639

the original game was pretty good. Would be pretty hard to stuff that up!

After playing the remaster of D2, I can’t look back. The smooth framerate is just a non-negotiable thing to me these days.

[anon30358639]

@OShogun-1317

After playing the remaster of D2, I can’t look back. The smooth framerate is just a non-negotiable thing to me these days.

yes, it’s a lot of fun.

[Kaiserblade-11841]

they dont understand what you said man… the devs have no idea what and how ARPG hack and slash is. from what i see in these recent games, the devs still totaly out of touch.

i agree that non-season game needs altar and more balance, indeed the game is addicted and keep repeating trash areas, and our magnificent super inteligent devs find their " perfect solution" to open and close Grifts with Orek.

they nerfed Orek’s dream
they nerfed bane of the traped
to these days, am still making same question about these 30% more damage taken by wiz wd dh and necro, this desgrace is Jay’s wilson heritage. it is the perfect time for this “devs” to redeeme them selfs and just make 1 right thing.