DH Thorns Concept

General Discussion
1

I’ve spent some time tossing around ideas for a fresh new Demon Hunter build. I found a way to make DH do 2-3 trillion thorns damage in peak conditions with an item like Hack, so naturally I looked at DH gear & skills and came up with a cool concept for Thorns DH builds that thematically fits into the class.

SKILL UPDATES
We first need to create thorn skills. I nominate Caltrops and Spike Trap.

Caltrops:Jagged Spikes
Enemies in the area also take 270% thorns damage as Physical over 6 seconds.

Spike Trap:Impaline Spines
Spike Trap now deals thorns damage. When deployed, enemies within range are instantly immobilized for 3 seconds.

Caltrops is a DoT. Spike Trap is a compact detonation ability.

THORNS MODIFIER
Then we need a way to increase our sheet thorns.

Omryn’s Chain
Drop Caltrops when using Vault. Each sprung Caltrop increases thorns damage by 500% up to a maximum of 1500%.

“I bought this from an ancient conjurer named Omryn. I believe it traps your enemies while you escape or something? To be honest, I just thought it made me look dangerous. No, the other demon hunters won’t talk to me, why do you ask?”-Darnal of the Wastes"

UPGRADE THESE CALTROPS & SPIKE TRAP LEGENDARY EFFECTS
Lastly, we need item synergies to make Caltrops and Spike Trap competitive.

Helltrapper
10% 50% chance on hit to summon a Spike Trap, Caltrops or Sentry. Increase the damage of Caltrops and Devices by 2% for every yard between you and the enemy. Maximum 100% increase at 50 yards.

Helltrapper spawns mechanical devices directly under your feet. Just as Omryn’s Chain says ‘it traps your enemies while you escape’, let’s reinforce this by giving Helltrapper a damage bonus based on the distance between the player and enemy. Essentially Zei’s gem v2.

Helltrapper now becomes a kiter’s xBow and supports the ranged style gameplay we all expect from the class.

Chanon Bolter
Your Spike Traps lure enemies to them. Enemies may be taunted once every 16 seconds. Increases the damage of Spike Trap by 200%.

This boosts Spike Trap damage with a pull effect. This item is all about: “AYBABTU: set us up the bomb”. You manually cast Spike Traps in a nice tight pile, vault a few times while luring enemies, wait for your CoE cycle and then detonate. The pull behavior of Chanon Bolter should kick in right before detonation – the pull should occur immediately, and the detonation precisely 0.5-0.75 seconds after the pull.

Trag’oul Coils
Spike Trap gains the Scatter rune and has 50% cooldown.

Make the Scatter rune default so you can pick the element. For the purpose of our Thorns DH, we want the Impaling Spines rune selected so it’s Physical damage. Fix the cooldown effect. Currently, this item is very broken at the moment.

Danetta’s Hatred (2 set bonus)
Enemies hit by Vault take 200% increased damage from Vault, Spike Trap, Caltrops, Grenade and Rain of Vengeance for 8 seconds.

This 1-hand xBow pair lets you deploy Caltrops, rush into your enemy and then distance yourself quickly, it’s highly synergistic with Omryn’s Chain and easily produces Caltrops, you will use this with Natalya’s 6pc set and cube Dawn, or one of the other legendary items. I intentionally stuck Grenade in there for UE6 Grenades.

THE BUILD VARIANTS

Weapon Config Caltrops Spike Trap
Demon Demise + Helltrapper + Dawn 2.8 5.6
Demon Demise + Chanon Bolter + Dawn 1.4 8.4
Danetta’s + Dawn 4.2 4.2
Danetta’s + Demon Demise 3 6
Danetta’s + Canon Bolter 3 6
Danetta’s + Helltrapper 6 6
Odyssy’s End + Helltrapper + Dawn 6.0 6.0
Danetta’s + Odyssey’s End 6.1 6.1

Danetta’s xBows will detonate Spike Trap upon Vault. It’s not synergistic in push, but decent for faster paced content like speed GRs. Danetta’s is ideal for Caltrops.

DAMAGE APPROXIMATION

Weapon Config Caltrops Spike Trap
Demon Demise + Helltrapper + Dawn 136T 1,526T
Demon Demise + Chanon Bolter + Dawn 68T 2,289T
Danetta’s + Dawn 204T 1,144T
Danetta’s + Demon Demise 146T 1,635T
Danetta’s + Canon Bolter 146T 1,635T
Danetta’s + Helltrapper 292T 1,635T
Odyssy’s End + Helltrapper + Dawn 293T 1,640T
Danetta’s + Odyssey’s End 297T 1,663T

ANTICIPATED SOLO PEAK DAMAGE
Caltrops is a DoT, it’s smaller ticks. Spike Trap can be up to 10 hits, very similar to Bombardment.

SURVIVAL
Under Natalya’s, the survival is rough. DR sources may include:

  • N6: 60% DR
  • Vengeance:Dark Heart: 50% DR
  • Aquilas: 50% DR
  • Numbing Traps: 25% DR Debuff
  • Fan of Knives:Bladed Armor: 40% Armor
  • Aughild vs Wraps of Clairty is an option.

Under LoN/LoD, the survival is better. DR sources may include:

  • LoN/LoD: 52% DR
  • Vengeance:Dark Heart: 50% DR
  • Aquilas: 50% DR
  • Stone Gauntlets: 200% Armor
  • Numbing Traps: 25% DR Debuff
  • Fan of Knives:Bladed Armor: 40% Armor

SKILL LOADOUT

Rain of Vengeance ← can be dropped in LoN variant
Caltrops
Spike Trap
Entangling Shot
Vengeance
Vault

6 Likes
2

I like the idea. Id take out the set xbows and stick to LoD though.

3

Seems like something I always wanted without knowing about it.
Would love to see this happen… Especially with Danettas idea… Great job, makes work of Natalyas as well

4

I was ready to say it’s a bad idea because why would DH need thorns damage, they don’t get hit… but I guess it could make sense that traps are thorns damage rather than weapon damage.

I’m am a bit confused by dannetas though. Helltrapper requires you to be far to get damage (which kinda makes sense since you’re laying traps) but danetta requires you to be close to get the damage buff. Of course you don’t have to use both, but usually items changed for a build are made to work together rather than against each other.

I would also change Chanon bolter to lure mobs more than once every 16 seconds, because 16 seconds is way too long of an ICD to really make mobs interested in the trap and take damage. Unfortunately, with the nerf to crowd control a long time ago, it’s not possible to keep mobs taunted long enough to really ever be “left alone”. Also, with the new buff to the followers, they will always stand near you and be an annoyance, and now you can’t even decide to play without them. Mobs will tend to go and stay on the follower instead of the traps. (please blizzard, make followers go where you put your banner).
You could have a perma taunt chanon bolter with a 20 seconds taunt every second. That’d be interesting.

1 Like
5

Nope. Robbing others class are bad.
Especially then you rob thorns and trying apply them like AOE attacks

6

I would change Chanon Bolter’s behavior as follows:

  • 0 seconds, upon Spike Trap trigger = Pull All Stuff
  • .75 seconds later = Detonate (delayed)

No ICD, this way it is not a drag on groups with CC and the game play.

That actually could be really cool for group meta, if the thing stayed active for 64 seconds and 32 yard pixel pulled every 16 seconds, like a ticking clock.

Danetta’s is a vehicle for automatically dropping Caltrops. It is a mobility item, it is not the most accurate way to place caltrops.

Danetta’s with Helltapper is for speed builds, with the DoT ticking for 48-50T and spike trap detonations smashing elites for much more.

Cubing Helltrapper removes the incentive to play close. With Helltrapper there is an incentive to use Spike Trap too which immobilizes enemies and helps the player to keep stuff distant because the build is glass without Dawn or Wraps of Clarity. Possibly Elusive and/or Captain Crimson is needed.

The player will rely on ranged combat since these skills slow movement and immobilize enemies.

Clumping a pile of traps and caltrops together and fleeing is still going to yield the fastest progress in push, but you’ll probably want to use Spike Trap as the main damage dealer for that.

Robbing is an extreme way of putting it. There are limited mechanics in D3, limited affixes too. I went for a cheap way to breathe life into two otherwise dead skills.

  • Caltrops is a DoT ground effect.
  • Spike Trap must be positioned and then detonated to deal damage.
  • Bombardment automatically targets enemies.

The gameplay is fundamentally different. Damage is damage, it doesn’t really make a difference if it comes from Weapon Damage or Thorns Weapon damage conversion. Thematically, it fits, because we are restricting it to skills that are … pointy.

1 Like
7

You mean like the invoker set? That was free for all classes before, they gave it to the crusader only? Thorns should get more love, and every class could use it as an option.

2 Likes
8

U can use hack axe, u can use thorns gems on any character. Maybe the main reason that just thorns not suitable for dh, wiz, wd, monk? :joy:

9

Thorns are made for the melee type i give you that. Never the less not all classes has sinergy whit thorns, and i don’t see a reason why. So they could have ways to push out that damage trough skills or passives, not just Hack gems and Heart of Iron. DHs trap skills could be a good way for that. Also DH has a meele set, so why the hell not?