šŸ¹ DH Balance Proposal - Come Look

This season he did rat runs (streamed on twitch) thatā€™s why heā€™s 3k+ paragon.

A pure DH player that only plays the demon hunter will probably have no more than 1300-1500 paragon in same time frame and will safely clear (softcore at least) 105-107 (UE MS).

Iā€™ve got nearly 1800 paragon and have cleared a 117 in season. Iā€™ve played just under 400 hours this season, mostly solo with the exception of some split bounties which is somewhere between 20 and 30 games.

Iā€™m far from the best DH, so Iā€™m gonna say that your estimate is off.

An efficient DH should pull around 1T per hour solo without pools, ~1.4T per hour solo with pools. Maybe even more at higher paragon.

1T XP/hour is 15 GR100s per hour (3 min average clear time + 1 min upgrade/port/town time) or 12 GR105s per hour (4 min average clear time + 1 min upgrade/port/town time). Thatā€™s doable for a solo DH. And probably a bit conservative, you should be able to get your upgrade/port/town time down to like 40-45 sec a rift if youā€™re really efficient.

Now letā€™s say you spend half your time doing efficient GRs, and the other half your playtime doing non-XP related things like T16 rifts, bounties, or otherwise just wasting time.

So letā€™s cut that 1T/1.4T from above in half and call 500-700B XP/hour your average XP rate over a few hundred hours in a season.

175 hours of gameplay at that rate (1T per hour speedfarming and half your playtime speedfarming, the other half mucking around in T16 or whatever) would put you at 1800 paragon. 175 hours over a 90 day season is ~2 hours/day. To bump that to 2000 paragon, youā€™d need 240 hours at 500B/XP hour, so a little over 2.5 hours/day over a 90 day season.

Now letā€™s say you play 4 hours a day, so ~350-400 hours on the season. And are a little more efficient with your playtime, spend 2/3 of your time running GRs and only 1/3 of the time mucking around doing other stuff. If you are able to average 700B XP/hour over your total seasonal playtime, at 350-400 hours played on the season, thatā€™d put you at around 2500-2700 paragon.

Those are all pretty feasible numbers for solo players.

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Some people are 6.5K Paragon in Season already.

https : //docs DOT google DOT com/spreadsheets/d/1yxd9Mac1kuoUsogFRJGtJq-DO6KpgUiielIoJBz0s-Y/edit#gid=544414816&fvid=1115540003

Always loved the cluster arrow DH, what I didnt like is that the focus shifted to the grenades rune because of the (I think) the belt.
Normal CA could need such an item to make rockets insane again.

My bad, forgot not everyone is playing HC season haha! Yeah I can totally see it for softcore doing 115+ clears easily, again highest clear we had on HC as UE MS was 116 by someone with 2k+ para.

But yeah, in soft you can push higher more easily because you can gear mostly offensive and use all 4 passives for dps too, and youā€™re not afraid to tackle higher GR hoping for good maps / pylons / RG, in HC is not so easy to make the pushes.

Natma works decently this season too, but you may have a hard time getting traditional rat players to accept your strength/niche. Speed 110+ should be no problem, we just tend to perform better in 4 min clear territory due to longer sentry startup. When you get towards 2k paragon 3-4 min 115s should be the norm. I remember in S16 doing 4-5 min 119s between 2000-2500 paragon, today in S20 we are technically stronger ā€“ but the sentry rollout is slower.

We can do those as pure DH (not recommended for hardcore), or if you have nice friends you can zDH and be a little productive GR130+.

Sadly if you want to be an exclusive DH, those are the better paths to greatness in S20.

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I made some predictions for PTR start date because many people kept asking me.

I think this proposal was made in a right time, 21 days ago.

dmkt should probably reopen this topic on the PTR forums. As soon as they open the ptr forums up.

Iā€™m sorry but what good would serve this topic in the PTR forums ? I mean they wonā€™t redesign the fundation of the new set they just offered to be tested just because they may find some good ideas here.
In best case scenario they make some adjustments if we ask some specific little changes to the new set.

As for the suggestions regarding the existing sets we may give some ideas but again I donā€™t think that a topic with hundreds of various things would be the most effective way to do it.

Less is sometimes more.

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Many voices from the DH community requested buffs Spike Traps/Caltrops. This proposal excluded those skill(s) with the expectation that weā€™d get a Spike Traps set. So hereā€™s how Iā€™d approach it:

We include a link back to this proposal on the PTR forum, regardless if the new set is good or bad.

If the new set is made for Spike Traps and is headed in right direction, we request relevant extras from this list (defensive buffs, supporting utility, add skill to set bonus, etc).

If the Spike Traps set is going in the wrong direction, we focus majority of our feedback to help save the set. The set outcome is #1.

If the new set is based on some other skill(s) (strafe, elemental arrow, etc), we can suggest relevant ideas if applicable.

Itā€™s all about being dynamic. They might set the power bar very high, in which case, the numbers suggested here must get revised completely to be worth recommending.

Iā€™m looking forward to seeing what they put in front of us.

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As I got glimpses from social media, they plan on a grand scale class balance patch with or after the new sets are revealed. I expect Chakram and Elemental Arrow for DH most likely and Revive/CE for Necros. I donā€™t count on them touching Spike Traps besides a few legendary item tweaks.

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I am exited about what is coming the next days/weeks.

I really hope you are wrong with EA+Chakram, because both skills can be played with 2-3 sets allready.

UE is king for both, because both got the generator mechanic.
All these two skills need are high damage multipliers. Done

Still betting on a strafe set with fok/trap implementation as secondary damage source.

Spike Traps needs a redesign before it can even hope to have a set built around it. Theyā€™ve mucked with the skill multiple times over the years and each time theyā€™ve done so theyā€™ve somehow managed to make it worse. Basically, until it can function as a standalone hatred spender without compromising the gameā€™s current gottagofast nature, itā€™d just be a wasted set.

Far as Iā€™m concerned, EA is the skill in the best position to get a set focus. Yes, we need some tweaks to Krider and AP, and any other new items would be welcome, but I feel like Chakram can be baked into Shadow and Strafe has LoN.

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Isnt UE a 302x multiplier?

Why do you see a possibility for a set around EA then?
Sry, in honest respect, that would be pure nonsense.
(even though blizz decided to give WDā€™s a spirit barrage set xD)

EA needs no set.

DH is last on the list so they had time.

Maybe they shaked Spike Trap up from the ground and made a well functioning skill with a well functioning set.

Damn, each post i see about this topic, makes me want to get the PTR as early as possible. :sweat_smile:

Peace :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Itā€™s more about the ability to be implicitly creative with a set for EA. All UE does is up damage. Some kind of synergy could be derived from debuffs inflicted by EA. Attack radii could be expanded. Elemental damage affixes could be multiplied. The debuffs could be baked into all runes. Fire a skill of x element and it fires an additional EA of that element. Immolation Arrow could be affected by PUR. Basically just some attempt at build creativity and getting us to look at items differently.

Seems like you were right. Iā€™m kind of disappointed they didnā€™t pull Elemental Arrow or Chakram in to the list but if they looking for a grand scale balance patch then I can only hope that those made into their ā€œto-doā€ list. May be they already included a support item for those specs in and Iā€™m not seeing it?

New Set is a counter-part to Natalya but Strafe is not the main focus there; N6 deals burst damage via damage proc legendaries like a LoD/N, new set simply replicates your primary attacks with Strafe casts. I think it can be baked into a trapper spec with the use of Helltrapper somewhat. We shall see.

Wish they could have done more for DH this patch.
Especially after all the fine work put into this post, if I could like it more than once I would.

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Unfortunately, by the time the OP was created, the base design of the new set had almost certainly been set in stone and the rest of the DH item changes as well. Things like this are processed farther in advance than the date of the OP vs. the upcoming PTR start date. Thatā€™s the reality of modern development cycles. Most of the time, by the time us players get to speak our minds on a subject, itā€™s already firmly set. :frowning:

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Wonder which gear pieces the new DH set will have, hopefully doesnā€™t include pants so we can fit in Depth Diggers without needing a RoRG.

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