If you were around during the early days of the DH everyone remembers the old M6 sentry build that to most was the most fun we ever had as a DH; however, blizzard decided that they wanted to redesign the sentry build to only shoot when we do.
This created alot of outcry over the years, but in the end Demon Hunters accepted the outcome. Now fast foward into the future for patch 2020 we are seeing the Wizard class getting a new Typoon set which functions exactly the same way as the our old sentry build! Expect instead of sentry’s they are using Hydra’s in the new Wizard Typhoon set .
If wizards can deal damage with hydra without being forced to fire since hydra’s fire on their own, Can we please REVERT M6 to its old glory???
If Lag was the original issue for the original change, then all blizzard needs to do is simply have to do is implement a simple change like i proposed above and decrease the number of active total sentry’s and increase the damge to compensate.
P.S
This is not a please Nerf wizards thread. This is just a DH wanting our old build back since the design original change appears to no longer be the case anymore now that Wizard’s hydra works exactly like the old sentry builds (just less overall hydra’s but instead more heads)
How many old DH players out there still miss this build?
Fun times. The lag came from ball lightning. Usally we ran x2 ball lightning builds and one cold build and pony sader for limitless cc. I do miss that build
People really don’t seem to understand the difference between Hydras and Sentries with Marauder set.
Currently the Sentries autocast only their base attacks which also depend on the rune selected. Just like Hydras also do, they autocast their base attacks only.
By the OP’s logic, if Sentries should autocast Hatred spenders when using Marauder set, the Hydras should also autocast AP spenders when using Typhon set. Both would make the builds insanely OP and braindead.
Have you tried the Hydra build on the PTR? It doesn’t feel like the old sentry build at all (imho), because the Hydras get only its full strength, when you use channeling skills at well.
It’s in no way “just placing hydras and then go avoid the damage by vaulting around.”
This is exactly how both base skills work. The only argument against it is because your now adding in modifer items but thats an entirely different argument which is not the point of my thread.
I created this threa to prove that the old blizzard design of, “We do not feel that dropping sentry’s and running around is a good gameplay style for Diablo 3”. Well that has apparently changed because now Wizards are running around Dropping hydra’s… Its the exact feature that they removed from the Demon hunter M6 set.
Whats wrong with that? You technically already have an off hand that does this. Its called etched signal… If you want the ability for hydra to also cast these items then all you need to do is ask blizzard to allow that. I’m not against this, and I’m actually for this if Wizards want this to happen. Etched signals design already autocasts and it was created before the typhoon set, so simply ask blizzard to add hydra to it, or ask blizzard to add it to the hydra set. Either way there is nothing wrong with asking!
Your compairing apples to oranges here. The main feature is autocasting and running away. Thats what blizzard removed from the Maurader set, but with the new Typhoon set this game mechanic that they deleted is not added to the Typhoon set. The only difference is that the M6 set autocasted our spenders, where wizards have Etched signal to do that. All you have to do is ask them to put it on the hydra set, or add it to etched signal.
As for the complaining about channeling thats a design for your class and your class alone. Just because you feel like you have to use deathwish in order for hydra to be GR100+ viable doesnt mean that you cant “place hydras then run around avoiding damage” Becuase you can! Just on a lower GR level.
That is when you ask blizzard for BUFFS to make it more viable or ask for them to find a way to make it so Deathwish doesnt feel required in order to push. Lets also not forget that we all had our supporting items in order for it to work, with DH we also also had to use Bombardiers (you use etched signal), and we used Hell trapper, (just like how you use deathwish). These are extra items that have nothing to do with the mechanic sentrys autocasting on the enemies, or hydra’s autocasting on the enemies.
Read what I typed out to the other users. It’s Exactly the same. Your argument is about power, or the extra added features like sentry’s casting your hatred spenders, vs etched signal where while channeling you autocast your skills. Etched signal was created before the Typhoon set was created so simply ask Blizzard to add, “Hydra now casts your arcane spenders”
This is not a nurf thread. This is an, “I want my old M6 build back thread”.
Just to be clear: I am not a Wizard player. Not at all. I am a DH player most of the time. Just because there is nothing new for us, I tried the Hydra set on the PTR, because I thought it would feel something like sentries.
But it doesn’t. Not at all. The damage mechanic with these very limited Hydra attacks is completely different from sentries flooding the whole screen with MS/EA/Chakram/whatever. Also Hydras only deal relevant damage when the Wizard is firing as well. Hydras alone in their current design are just weak.
So it’s not like the old sentry build, where sentries did autocast our spenders. It is even worse than our current sentry builds (M6 and N6/M4), because you have to stand still for at least a second before the Hydras deal some damage.
I can understand that some DHs want the old sentry build back. I am not one of them, but I can accept, that this build has a lot of fans.
But it is invalid to say that we should get it back, because Wizards have something like it now. Because they don’t have it neither.
Bombardiers and Hell Trapper just increase the number of sentries and by that the damage is increased. You don’t have to change your playstyle to benefit from them in a sentry build. Etched Sigil and Deathwish requires channeling, and this heavily affects the playstyle, and imho not in a good way. Just think of it that way: If Bombardiers and Helltrapper had a legendary effect like “While you channel Rapid Fire for at least 1 second, the damage of your Sentries is increased by 300%” … would this feel like our old autocast build?
Again this is comparing apples to oranges. 5 sentry’s vs two hydra’s with 5 heads… of course there will be a big deal of visual difference. As for whether or not the damage dealt is relevent or not to the set doesnt matter, blame that on deathwish. The same can be said about the M6 build, without Bombardiers or helltrap the damage would be 50% less. So again your basically comparing the supporting items vs the actual game mechanic.
This set functions exactly like the old M6 did. You can lay down hydra’s run and watch enemies die. Thats a fact and nothing will change that fact. If the damage is subpar then the set needs tweaking or the supporting items need tweaking that has nothing to do with how it functions.
Thats fine, thats why we have build diversity. If you dont like Rapid fire, go play Multishot ect… There is no reason to limit diversity by not wanting this to be changed back. If you want to fire while your sentry’s are firing nothing is stopping you, but if I want to let my sentrys fire while I try to survive that is not something I can do with how the Marauder set is currently designed as. By being against this change you would rather have less diversity than being for it since nothing is stopping you from firing while the sentry’s fire.
Again your agruing the mechanics of other supporting items. I’m not arguing that I’m talking about the mechanics of how it works. If deathwish sucks because you have to wait 1 second before getting power, then your problem is with deathwish not the hydra set. They also have etched signal to autocast their spells and now they have the magistrate to allow them hydra to autocast frost nova.
Actually they do, and its actually a VALID argument. Your agrument about bringing in suppporting items is INVALID.
Again your problem is with the deathwish nurf. That has NOTHING to do with the mechanics of the set. Our supporting items gave us extra sentry’s and their supporting items give them extra skill casting (magistrate, etched signal). Our set didnt inrease the # of sentry’s, but their set does incrase the number of hydra heads. Its the same game mechanics, implemented slightly different.
Again this is an apples to oranges comparison. This is like comparing Tal-rasha’s set to Maurader… One forces 4 stupid skills to be pressed to get full power, the other bases the power on how many sentry’s are out, with limited skills getting buffed instead of globally like tals. The mechanics of tal-rasha are the fault of the developers who designed it that way. They are the ones you’d complain to about the set being clunky. Thats why i left that class.
My comparison is about the mechanics of how it functions. So either blizzard lets us get our old design back or blizzard should redesign the new Typhoon set to only allow the hydras to fire when you are that way they work exactly the same and no one can argue otherwise.
You are still mixing autocasting base attacks and other spenders. Hydras autocast only their base attack. Sentries autocast only their base attack.
Even in current iteration Marauder is still superior since it makes Sentries cast spenders, albeit only when you do. Hydras do not have that functionality with Typhon.
This is again arguing apples to oranges… Do you not remember why the build was changed? It wasnt because it autocasted other spenders or what other supporting items it had. It was because the developers didnt like the mechanics of the playstyle where your pets do all the damage while you can sit back and go nothing. Thats how the new set is designed.
The other problems you are talking about are related to the supporting items. Wizards have etched signal to autocast spells, and now you have the magistrate to autocast frost nova. Instead of arguing this with me simply create a thread asking for the magistrate to work like how the maurader set works and ask blizzard to change works like this.
The Magistrate
Your Hydras now periodically casts Frost Nova and deal 450-600% increased damage automatically cast your arcane spenders.
If we’re to get down to technical implementation, no the new Hydra set doesn’t make Hydras function like the old M6 set but the set does make Hydras more effective through modification rather than just a damage buff. In that sense, I got the same feeling as the old M6 when playing with the new Hydra set.
On the topic of the DH sets, I’ve said it many times:
UE should have EA, Chakram, Rapid Fire and CA added to it and it would be the set to use when YOU want to be the one doing the damage with these skills.
S6 should have FoK, Chakram, Bolas and Grenades added to the 6pc damage (different multiplier of course) for some variety to Impale. This would keep with the melee weapon theme of the set. You can get up close and personal with these skills as opposed to the UE set.
M6 should have its sentries auto fire your spenders again. The 6pc should be lowered but buffs both you and the sentries. In that effect, you would become the 6th sentry. Spiked Traps and FoK should be added to this set’s 6pc.
Nats should increase the 6pc damage and DR buff from 10sec to 30sec… if we want to play a nuke build, we can stack the CDR and use Crashing Rain but if we want to focus more on Rapid Fire, Strafe or other skills, then prolonging the damage and DR effect makes using other skills a bit more enjoyable.
With these changes, pretty much all DH skills would be supported and you have sets that promote:
ranged attack playstyle
close range/single target assasssin playstyle
pets/traps playstyle
Nuking/Channeling playstyles
The new set could then add something new to the mix… maybe a pure traps set (Spiked Traps and Caltrops that emit Fan of Knives?) that’s based on thorns damage?
Wizard Typhoon set