So there seems to be only 3 topics about death in D4, none for what I was going to say, so that’s good. Plus 2 of them were in December 2019. So there is that too.
No, death isn’t supposed to be fun or convenient, but it shouldn’t be annoying either. Meaning…
Please do not copy the D2 death. That was beyond annoying back then when D2 was the King of PC games, it will be even more annoying now. Just imagine all the QQ from the players now-a-days. Seriously, You will need a desalination plant of epic proportions to combat all that salty secretion.
No, I don’t think that D4 should be a 2.0 version of D2 or even D3, but at least you guys got the death right in D3. That, or something similar, should be copied and pasted to D4.
Also, please, don’t copy WoW’s death either. I know that D4 is a more ‘open’ game, even if it’s not a ‘world’ like WoW, but still those deaths were almost as annoying as the deaths in D2. Running back as a ghost that needs to adhere to the physics of the ‘world’ was beyond miserable, especially when the graveyard was so dang far away. At least the ghost could walk on water, that was the only part that wasn’t too bad. Well that and the option to turn off the ‘ghosting’ effect.
Also, nothing overly dramatic either. I don’t need to see (or hear) a death dance animation before I actually die. No thanks. A simple death splat will do. Another thing you got right in D3. The death text on the screen is fine in D2 and D3, don’t know how that would translate in D4. Might want to skip that if you are going for a more ‘open world’ experience. Either that, or maybe an option in game controls to turn that off.
I’m fine with death having a penalty for Diablo 4, however I guess that doesn’t really fly too well with some folks. So I suppose rather than penalizing folks for dying, we could instead reward folks who survive (this has been mentioned before actually). One such idea could be having people who stay alive gain a reward buff (probably a mf bonus buff that starts at 1%) that’ll last as long as they stay alive and increases while they’re fighting monsters (capping at probably 50%).
If the person dies (non-hc player), not only would they lose the mf buff, but for a duration (probably 30mins to an hour) after their death, they’ll have a harder time rebuilding the reward buff as their mf bonus growth would be slowed by about 75%. For example, if killing 1 monster before their death gave them a 2% increase to their mf bonus buff, killing the same monster after their death (while the slow growth penalty is active) would only grant them a .5% increase to the mf bonus buff. The slow growth penalty would persist even if the player leaves the game.
One of the problems with death penalties is that the game must be VERY balanced in order for it to work well. For ex. in D3 there was an era of crazy elite affix combos which killed you all the time. Even in D2 there were those Stygian Dolls with CE, Oblivion Knights with IM and some other annoying stuff.
Yes, a 10% durability loss on items is meaningless at best now in SC for D3. Back in the day when gold was fairly difficult to get in a legit manner (you know what I mean), it meant something up till the point when you don’t have to worry about gold anymore. That’s the same with real life in regards to fines. In the beginning, they hurt. But when you are at a point in your life when a fine is laughable, then it’s meaningless.
Yes, in GRs there is a time penalty per death. Fine. Worse come to worse, you leave the GR and start a new one. Still, fairly meaningless in SC for D3. Again, only talking about SC.
Again, as I said above, death isn’t supposed to be fun or convenient, but it shouldn’t be annoying either. D2 death = Annoying. WoW death = Annoying. D3 death (in SC) = Meaningless, but not annoying.
So, I yes make a death more meaningful in D4. I agree. D3 death needs a little more work penalty wise, but at least it’s not annoying.
While true, if deaths matter, it also put more pressure on Blizzard to fix those balance issues.
Imo, death should certainly not be annoying, like having to run back to your corpse (D2) , or getting a debuff that makes you wait 10 min for no reason (WoW).
But it should be significant.
Imo, take some inspiration from Sacred 2.
While killing monsters (based on XP gain) you get a %MF buff. It caps at 200%. It might take 20+ hours to cap it. This buff also gives enemies slightly more HP and dmg. Like 20% of each. To make the system risk/reward based.
Each time you die you lose up to 50% of the MF buff, and enemies lose 5% of the extra dmg/HP.
It makes deaths meaningful, but in a way where when you die, the only thing that happens is that you want to get back into the fight, so you can build up your bonus again, doing the exact same stuff you were already doing before.
Don’t forget about the one shot mobs in D1 as you got closer to encountering Diablo. It didn’t matter how awesome your character was, one shot and you are dead. If I remember correctly, they were the Hellhounds that spat at you with acid.
I agree, in D2, there were so many monsters is Act 3 that would one shot you if you were too close or if you were within range. Yes, through out all the acts, there were those difficult mobs that just down right hurt, but at least they didn’t one shot you.
Considering modern design… patterns, I think it’s better to give some kind of accruing reward for NOT dying for a long time and avoid ANY penalty when you die, except for reducing/removing that reward. People today hate ANY penalties. Times are different. Anyways, games should be rewarding, not punishing.
Don’t speak for everyone. I love D1 half-hardcore death when all equiped items drop on the ground and you have to take them back naked before demons steal them -)
Just use the old-school NES death system. Your character died, you restart from the beginning.
For solo, when you died, you got kicked out from the keyed dungeon or campaign dungeon. So you have to restart the whole thing from the entrance of whatever dungeon that you are doing and yes, the monsters respawned too.
For group, if you died, you died and you will watch your allies to finish the boss fight or whatever quest in the dungeon. If the whole party got wiped out, everyone will start from the entrance of the dungeon again with all monsters respawned.
As for the world map zone, you died, you will spawn in town and you have to use the waypoint to go back wherever you died.
If you are in a group, you will spawn in town and you can teleport to your allies or walk.
Personally I think death should be more of a setback than a penalty… Therefore “revive % of monsters killed” maybe (say 25% from slain monsters get back, or something like that)
And this one definitely yes, though I think there should be a counter (per dungeon different) as opposed to require clean run to win… Think that would stirr too much reactions and Blizz will over/nerf
Either Paladin/monk/whatever semi healer/support class have some channeling revive spell and add something like reviving consumables for any classes (harder to acquire).
That solves both problems.
I’m all for losing 10% of money and a durability hit with a rez at the nearest safe hub/dungeon entrance. That’s really all that is needed. The loss of time, gold, and gold from repairs is punishment enough. Keep it at a % cost so gold inflation shouldn’t make it unnoticeable.
Still doesn’t stop people from zerging stuff though, think in addition to that some % of monsters should revive back (say 25% per death, sounds reasonable to me tbh)
D1 res.scrolls. They removed it even in D2, because, obviously, this is a QOL change. Did this break immersion? Maybe only in one’s 1st walkthough. After that immersion fades away by itself. Again for this reason I see no problem with any character reviving any other character in a D3-like manner.
