I think AoE overall should be weaker, I think it’s the one thing that has crippled build diversity.
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Concerning Lab: the very idea is a very cool one. However, Lab was designed for slow gameplay speed, and PoE failed badly with it, that’s why Lab simply doesn’t work as intended.
Crazy speed is a scourge of all ARPGs, it turns the game into a brainless slot machine.
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I only agree with point 2… the rest i 100% do not agree especially point 4, like cmon mechanics where you acutally need to think what you’re doing and not just click one buttone whole the time to win is a good game design for example I LOVE The Maven fight she has the best boss mechanics in POE. Returning to point 2 i agree because i never know why i die so much in this game when i have all resistances including chaos 75% a lot of HP + regen + other reductions and im not even running multiple mods on a map and gets one-shoted from normal mob, that’s bullshiet right there just go watch death compilation on YT and you see what i mean.
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Just him of course. Someone needs to keep up the D2 trolling. Trading wasn’t fundamental to D2 IMO. Since the majority of players never traded, it must not have been that important. Made things convenient and faster sure.
Can we talk PoE here?
Dude, one man can dream that Blizz learn A LOT from them
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i dont agree … that nerf is important, because PoE is based on variety, poeple must get new ways to craft. it is not like some games, with a generic game-play methods. am playing por for 6 years. i personaly had no problem with nerf, like many other players.
Blizzard have tried this, and it did… Not work out quite well.
However if they did try it again and maybe not made it so stupid like they did the first time (remember the Real Money AH, anyone?), then I guess it wouldn’t be too bad. At least it’d cut the middleman out with the arrangement of getting together to buy/sell things.
Someone said a very wise thing in regards to XP loss.
It does nothing good for the player. XP Loss makes players avoid doing anything risky and can lead to frustration if they end up making a mistake only to end up dead and have their progress be made null and void.
So I’d rather avoid seeing something like that be featured.
That sounds great, actually. I’d like something like that.
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PoE is a crafting game sure.
But honestly in my mind i think it is impossible to balance drops from the ground and crafting perfectly. If it is possible to craft a BiS item then that will be the easiest way assuming getting a bis drop on the ground is very very rare as it should be or we will end up in D3 land very fast.
What i would like to see is a in depth crafting system in D4. However crafted item cannot roll the highest tier of mods, so to get the absolute best of the best it has to be from the ground.
But then you also have good items on the ground that you might wanna tweak a stat or two with crafting if thats even possible in D4.
It’s a hard thing to balance.
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Death penalty should be fairly severe, but not crippling.
Everquest: crippling. I had to hit level 7 with my erudite wizard 5 times. lol. Through no fault of my own. (my computer/connection lagged a lot and I paid the penalty for trying to enjoy life even though I was poor)
PoE: Severe, but not quite crippling.
D2: Severe, more forgiving than PoE. You lost your carried gold and all equipped items and some XP. You could get your items back very easily, you could pick up the pile of gold later if you wanted, and you got some of the xp back if you went back and picked up your body.
Guild wars: Pretty tame, actually. If I recall correctly, all you got was an xp penalty and a health/damage debuff for a few minutes. The time increased upon mulitple deaths.
It Lurks below: fairly tame. You had a chance (not a guarantee, but almost) to lose a few items upon death. These were randomly selected from any carried or equipped item and dropped on the ground. You could pick them up later, or if you had the right building in town you could pay gold to get them back without having to go back and pick them up.
I think the penalty should be a combo of these things. If you die:
1: you lose 10% XP. you then gain a 10% XP buff that lasts for X amount of time before it expires. The buff goes away when it accounts for the XP you’ve lost. if it expires, any leftover XP you haven’t earned back is lost forever. You still don’t want to die, but it’s not a permanent crippling.
2: You gain a debuff that gives you 10% less magic find, gold find, and increased vendor prices. This debuff lasts 10 minutes and each time you die, if the debuff is active it is extended by 3 minutes, and 2%. So if you die with 3 minutes left on the debuff, you now have 12% penalty for 6 minutes. Die again, it’s 14% for 9 minutes. This debuff is for time played only. No logging off and logging back on later scott free.
excellent post friend.
i wonder if PoE 2 will address many of these issues, especially the one-shot problem.
You cant address it in current PoE because it is the only way to kill a player. The sustain is too high, if something doesnt kill you outright you will never die. Which is not good design either.
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Fourth game isnt bad time to make some changes imho. Ive suggested my own turn the game into 1 extra life game idea too, it should almost overhaul the entire game and improve every aspect of it.
Diablo 4: Overhauled. Sounds like a plan to me.
I’m excited for the dungeons and world bosses, i hope and wish the dungeon system to be really good…
because in WoW , it’s my favorite content… (if they make it like that)
Innovations in co op experience like actually hard bosses needing real cooperation and timing of skills.
i want dungeons to be slow-paced , to have that diablo 1 feeling (ok not that slow tho) but in terms of atmosphere and danger.
and pls make leveling a bit slower… let us experience the world and don’t rush it…
ps. i feel like aRPGs need to move on from that “speedrunning” mentality… imo
Don’t copy anything from that crapfest they call POE.
(don’t need to play 14k hours of that trash to know this)
/thread
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Just to make sure I am clear on why I consider PoE abusive, a good chunk of which is caused by its free-to-play model :
- The developers intentionally keep adding junk to clog the stashes so that they can force players to buy stash tabs. (Yes, it’s pay-to-win.)
- The developers intentionally have a bad trading system that is made a lot less impractical through the sale of more expensive stash tabs. (Yes, it’s pay-to-win.)
- The game constantly changes in order to force players to spend more time in it learning its constantly changing mechanics and pushing the sales of the flavor-of-the-month meta’s cosmetics.
- The game constantly adds extra layers of unnecessary complexity in order to force the players to come back every league and not be lost after skipping one.
- The penalty upon death is excessively punishing towards casual players (hours, sometimes even days or weeks lost for a single death), in order to force them to either join a more hardcore demographic or drop the game out of frustration.
PoE shows how free-to-play fails to provide decent monetization without needing to predate on players.
Don’t get me wrong, PoE did a lot of things right, at least in the beginning. For example, the absence of elemental immunities allowed players to focus on making whatever interesting build they could think of, rather than having to worry about having to build around mechanics that are almost entirely absent through most of the game. The potion system is way more interesting than D2 or D3’s potion systems. The “crafting” system looked pretty interesting, before it was made unintelligible and excessively expensive by adding layer upon layer of complexity to it.
The thing is, PoE was for a short moment the best ARPG out there, but gradually became a mess of interwoven unneeded systems that you either become addicted to, or leave very quickly because you’ve got a life to live.
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Don’t have a crap ton of different materials, keep it at like 3 or 4 which are used at the same time in the game. As in there can be different ones that become useless later or cannot be found earlier. Exception being if there is a system of needing specific parts to craft certain items. I would be happy if we had that plus D3’s crafting to be honest.
Don’t have complexity for the sake of complexity.
And most important of all, don’t be like GGG and get involved with tencent so you are part of China’s social credit score situation.
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What about D4 needs to be overhauled? What bit of this game that won’t be out for probably two years should be radically changed?
My point is that, some people say they want Diablo to be Diablo, but its really smart? How long you can keep selling the same product, without changes. Fourth sounds like a good number to make bigger changes to the series.
I am against an auction house.
I am for open trade. The players should act with each other, exchange information and thus greatly increase the bond, rather than behaving anonymously somewhere like robots.
Auction houses have tended to hurt the co-op model of an RPG. I want to be in contact with my fellow players, this promotes social interaction and human interaction.
I hope Diablo 4 slows down a lot and the mobs are a house number.
It’s a lot of fun when it makes the world immersive and you don’t just comb through everything. When enemies such as undead, through their plague auras and being undead, weaken players significantly and survive longer, you make them distinctive. You give them a certain soul that the player remembers and gains the attitude that undead ghouls are dangerous. They are much stronger than any cave jumpers.
When you are sent to the big graveyard with a deep underground crypt to get a scepter, you already have the queasy feeling that now it’s going to be a hard number… Except maybe for the necro, who can deal with undead more easily.
I don’t think much of One Shot… We better not need it. I’m also against too big HP ping pong. I’ve never liked it when the HP constantly provides for heart palpitations, because with a hit suddenly 90% life are gone… That only makes sense when the player goes into zones that are too high for his level… Then it is of course something else.
Penalties are a good way to make players focus more on the moment and not just blindly rush through.
It keeps players from leaving the game to the left and it protects the game world, if you do not die through, without significant problems and so great that you let it be.
I’m clearly in favor of penalties for death, and so painful that you want to avoid death and find other ways.
Omitting EP penalties, then only works if there are other penalties that outweigh this in any case.
The game will simply be worse if the world you are in does not give feedback. You have to rub shoulders with the world to also perceive it as a real world and danger.
If Diablo 4 becomes an arcade mode and pure tournament game here, it will have failed once again, and that’s because it’s no longer a game in that sense, but they’ve made a completely different genre out of it.
That’s already the problem with D3…
I don’t know the Lab. I’m not so sure about such content though.
If it can be integrated into the story, that is, into the world, then it can be very interesting, but should not become annoying.
If it serves as a sports arena, then as a separate area, as if you go PvP run…
But I can definitely imagine such content as a big cool side quest.
Like a laby like in the old gods sagas, where a main monster lives inside and walks the corridors and guards something… It was always the Minotaur that waded around in there. You could get a cool story around it and then also inside.
But as a sports field for the number hungry, that will take the game back out of focus.
It’s better to build something like that as exactly what it should be, a special playground that doesn’t interfere with the game itself, but can be quite interesting and fun.
I’m always careful with something like that. Thinking that such games should be last level endgame games is one of the reasons why all the online RPGs just don’t work anymore. Especially the way the whole thing is always structured is just cheating the players and the game world, as well as the whole genre, because it eats up and destroys the game and puts another genre on top of it.
RPGs always means to go the way and to keep the world exciting and mysterious, to have role distribution restrictive and to experience an adventurous egg, to tell stories and to convey the character development especially of the skill very well and thereby have possibilities to develop differently than his fellow player, but this again not easily changeable.
If this all always seems so shallow and unimportant, the RPG is in the bucket… .very simple… And if the last level and pay and items and bosses dominate, it is what? In any case, no more RPG and thus no game in the sense, it’s something else and we will all be sad… because again a zero number and the opportunity wasted.
Therefore claim purely, the leveling and the world and everything associated with it must be the star and permanently.
This is then always further expanded slowly and exciting and the rest is grown as an accessory, but is not determinant…
Everything else will not work… at least not really…
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Likely forever.
But it isn’t like the 3 Diablo games have been the same product. They have been very different from each other.
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