There doesn’t need to be two separate game modes, lol, have any of you ever played D2??? Solo players could easily gear up and level, then beat the game, despite the open trading.
It isn’t rocket science guys. You’re over complicating the hell out of it. The end game is pvp, magic find, and trading. It doesn’t need to be anything else. D2 has been proving this for over 20 years.
Nah. I watched this happen with D3, but Blizz hasn’t learned a thing. The player concerns were drowned in a sea of yes-men on the forums. Now they’re only posting these updates on the D3 forums, where it’s the same bologna.
I don’t care if it comes across as condescending, when these guys clearly didn’t even play D2, and make ridiculous, nonsensical arguments against mechanics they’ve only read about.
And I’m only speaking fact, when I say that they’ll buy anything with the Diablo name. Since that’s the case, if Blizz truly wants to build another massive game that lasts decades, they only need to attract the original audience. Reskinning Diablo 3 isn’t going to do that. That audience was betrayed by Blizzard already, and it will take alot to get them back. But if they can pull it off, they’ll potentially set massive sales records.
If you look at the Youtube post from Diablo, 99% of the comments are people praising D2 and asking for those same mechanics. In the comments (that were promptly deleted) on this website, it was mostly the same, although the D3 players added their two cents here and there.
But here on the forums, it’s nothing but more yes-men. This game will be nothing more than a darker reskin of D3, if they only listen to the people on these forums. And I guarantee it won’t even sell as much as D3, because the D2 fanbase has learned their lesson.
I would also like to say, thank you, I’m not trying to prove one person is right and one person is wrong. I’m just trying to get the fan base to come to an understanding where they might not have to agree on every little detail but try to view things in a broader perspective about things.
But Diablo 3 sales success was and will always be thanks to the legacy of the first and second game.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but when we’re constantly attacking one another, it splits the fan base. We need to come together, figure out which elements are truly important to a Diablo game and go from there.
But everyone has this “ME, ME, ME, ME, MY OPINION REEEE.” attitude about their beliefs they’re not recognizing the validity of someone else’s opinion. And turning into tribalism is not going to fix this.
Be angry at the right people. The developers and hold them responsible for shipping a completely broken game. Then fire them and hire new people who know what they’re doing. People need to drop the idolizing of studios. These people get paid to do a job and nothing more and they didn’t do a good enough job with Diablo 3 and nobody got reprimanded for it and with the direction of Diablo 4 currently, it clearly shows that nobody learned any lessons from Diablo 3 nor did they do any self reflecting or self critiquing.
But that is NOT the fault of the player base. Well it is in the way that the player base idolizes developing studios. But the main blame should remain for the developers.
Edit: Before anyone who says I am breaking TOS for mentioning a simple truth. When you screw up at your job bad enough, you get fired.
If I get suspended for saying a simple truth about the world. Whelp, worth it.
I disagree, I think this rain of items is horrible and discouraging.
It only serves to make the items irrelevant, after all, only 1 item is good, the Primal.
I agree with everything you said, but no matter what, the current D3 players will not change their tune. They will mindlessly defend D3.
Even the lead developer is completely ignorant to ARGP’s. All he needs to do is continue to post on these forums, read the D3 feedback, then claim that he did exactly what the players wanted when the game tanks.
If D3 was nothing more than a D2 clone with good graphics, and cosmetic monetization, it’d be the most profitable single game in the world. They sold over 30 million copies for god’s sake. Monetization on a game with a $60 price tag (that sold that much initially) would be unprecedented. They would have released an expansion every year too.
That’s exactly what Blizzard wants, but you know for a fact they’ll settle for another D3, since it’s still truck loads of cash. And if they don’t attract the D2 players back, they can’t accomplish the former anyhow.
I’m telling you man, the D3 players will just constantly check these forums, shout down anyone who likes D2, and the game is going to suck if they don’t do something about that. Especially with a Lead who isn’t a true Diablo developer, or even an ARPG developer.
If they were actually trying to make D4 the massive success that D3 could have been, they’d be driving traffic to the D4 website, where they’d have forums for fans of that game, not fans of D3.
I signed up for notifications from the D4 website, and the only reason I even noticed the new update was because of Youtube. How many D2 players are subscribed to Diablo on Youtube?
I was insanely excited when I saw the trailer, as they’re getting back to the gothic vibe, but there are so many warning signs already. They are emulating D3 far too much at this point in development. I hope I’m wrong and they end up reverting back to design philosophies from D2, but I really don’t think that’ll happen.
Don’t mistake telling the truth as an insult. You are completely right, they would buy almost any game with the Diablo name attached to it.
Telling the truth isn’t the same as insulting someone.
If someone gets offended by the truth, it’s on them and their way of thinking.
I honestly don’t think it’s insulting to state facts like, “D3 players will buy any game with the Diablo name.” but I hear what you’re saying.
I am okay with “limited” trading to a point but not having trading at all is just silly to me, especially in an always online game where you would think interacting with other players would be encouraged. I don’t want to play a multiplayer game all in my own bubble with my own loot and no way to swap or mix and match with other players.
just curious, you realize the stat caps on primal and ancient are the same right? the difference between a well rolled ancient and a primal is extremely small.
this is pretty much why i started this thread, nearly every thread i see being started by people are people asking for the game to be a way that I don’t enjoy, hense i want to understand the logic behind why people think the style of play is so much better.
There’s a reason i put thousands of hours into D3, and only hundreds of hours into a game like PoE… as for D2 i couldn’t even say how much time i spent playing that since it was so long ago and i’ve long lost those characters. likely well above 1000 hours in that game honestly… many mindless baal and mephisto runs. And at the time i was happy with that, but today i wouldn’t be. I enjoy what blizzard has done with D3.
I didnt enjoy how D3 started (with completely open trading and an auction house to speed up the trading) The main reason, I feel, that vanilla D3 drove so many players away early on is because of the free trade and loot drops tuned so bad that you had to rely on flipping and playing the AH to build any reliable build. Thats why i have such a poor opinion of it. They fixed that by gutting trading and buffing drop rates, and i honestly didnt like it at first… but over time i’ve come to greatly enjoy it.
I’d like to see blizzard find a nice middle ground, where you get enough drops to build your builds by playing (solo or in a group) but you have the option to dump items you don’t need into a market.
my concern is when trading becomes the “best” way to aquire items you need for specific builds or the best way to upgrade your gear. I’ve seen it in the two most recent ARPG’s i’ve played;
That’s how it is in PoE(when not playign SSF)
that’s how it WAS in vanilla D3
I didnt really enjoy either of those two games as much as i’ve enjoyed diablo 3 in its current state with zero trading.
When it gets to that point you no longer play to push the challenge and get harder clears (IE greater rift solo or group leaderboards) you instead play to find efficient farming routes (IE shaping your atlas in PoE to farm popular shaped maps, to then sell for orbs to buy the gear you need) I mean still you’re technically playing the game either way; i just prefer the way D3 does it .
woops i ranted a bit there too… lol… i should really go to bed.
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agreed, if it’s done properly, track record isn’t great though 
I brought up that Diablo age has clearly shown, yes doing 400 baal runs is not fun but against at the time with limited hardware and limited tools. If Diablo 2 was given a modern upgrade. It would sell faster than hot cakes.
Don’t let age fog your view on the matter. It’s quite unfair to say older games are bad just because they’re older because we’ll all be saying the same thing 40 years from now about the games we play today.
It’s the nature of the beast. You have to view the game in the time period in which it came out.
Then this is the truth. You’re letting one bad experience ruin your entire point of view on the subject. This is unhealthy and limits your thinking. Diablo 2 fans did NOT like the auction house, did NOT like the way it was set up, did NOT like the way it implemented.
The great thing about Diablo 2 trading system it was a complete and utter unintended effect by the developers. Again, they’re not masterminds. I doubt any developer during the creation had foreseen the massive explosion of popularity that was Diablo 2 trading.
It wasn’t ran by gold, it was ran by players who set their own values for the things in which they were trading. Sure some items were useless in trade value but that’s again… the nature of the beast. That’s how it works in real life too.
I think we can agree that Diablo 2 players wanted that system to be gutted as well, but what came as replacement wasn’t good either because it was too busy fixing what was broken. Reaper of Souls is literally. “Let’s fix everything wrong with vanilla D3 because the current developers have no idea what they’re doing.”
And how this personally effect you in any way? Because it doesn’t. Why are you obsessed by in which other player’s are doing?
If they set a clear drop rate goal for the game that is completely and utterly independent from trading. (To make this more clear. Just because trading exists, doesn’t mean they’re going to nerf the drop rate.)
Why would you care? You can still play self find without any down side nor do you impose your will on others about trading. This is my main problem with everyone’s opinions on this matter.
STOP TRYING TO CONTROL ON HOW OTHERS INTERACT WITH THE GAME AND FOCUS ONLY ON YOURSELF AND YOURSELF ALONE.
This would literally fix many issues among many different issues inside and outside of gaming.
I given a perfect solution to this problem. Make it so you can check a box to make sure that particular character has no access to trading and make a separate leader board for said characters.
So now you have a leader board for softcore, hardcore, and non-trade which means… more people can play the game they want to play and compete in the game they want to compete. Everyone is happy and nobody is imposing their will on others.
If there’s no trading, then what economy can there be?
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Although I respectfully disagree with the premise, I appreciate your logical approach to evaluating other opinions and what you liked/disliked.
I have always found different people take enjoyment from games in different ways and this is why there is so much debate about the direction to go with these aspects of a popular game franchise like Diablo. I personally think the presence of an “economy” that involves trading really adds a cool dynamic to games. 1, in that it encourages socializing and interacting with other players. 2, some people really just love trading currency and items for progress instead of playing the game. That’s not me personally but that is some peoples cup of tea. Why not let people that really want to trade and flip currency and items do so? It doesn’t stop anyone else from finding their own items. (If the argument against this is that its “unfair” or players feel cheated that people trading items have an advantage I feel like that’s just counter-intuitive to a co-operative online game that actually having to interact with other players to make an item you found useful is such a hassle)
If they wanted to go like a bind on equip route id be cool with it it would still limit trading but allow every item to be traded. Otherwise it is way to silly for me that I can find a great item that isn’t directly useful to me and instead of being excited to give it to a friend or have some fun seeing what I can get for it’s just junk.
As long as it doesn’t affect everyone else, then sure. Seems like the core of the issue here is if you believe trading will affect everyone.
If we have perfect item acquisition rate X (whatever speed that is) then Blizzard will want to balance droprate for it. If trading exists I bet they will take trading into account. Thus if you do not trade you might get rate X/100 instead => yes you are affected.
You are getting a different game experience than the developer intended.
A lot of people don’t seem to realize how much the “success” of trading in D2 was heavily influenced by dupes and bots (not even accounting for straight up bugs and hacks like oculus rings and “ith” weapons). If everyone played legitimately and with intended drop rates, you’d see something much closer to AH-era D3.
I mean I’ll admit myself I pindle-botted like crazy my entire D2 career so I definitely contributed to that, while having never even touched a bot in D3. I find it quite odd people bash D3 for rampant bots over D2. But lets be realistic here, it is SO much easier to write a script for a completely set map layout and killing one mob than it is to write one for running randomly generated nephalem rifts.
See you are 100% right and I agree in regards to the idea that the loot tables will be different if trading is a part of the game. I just think the idea that it has some inherently negative affect on how people play and enjoy the game doesn’t have to be true if itemization is done properly.
My main contention is that its a multi-player game it just seems a bit counter-intuitive to me to have a loot/economy that is basically just what you would collect in a single player game.
I don’t ever even have the time or motivation myself to go flip currency or items but I love sharing them around with friends to help each other out and it makes the RNG aspect of loot a lot less boring when an item isn’t simply useless or a material if it’s not better than what I am wearing.
True, trading proved that it is bad for Diablo(bots,black market/spam links)… either limited or not at all.