D4 trading - why it needs to be limited or not at all

[Nickamus-1876]

@Ehpic-11306

i’ll admit keystones are something i’m very interested in seeing how they develop. I hope they take a page out of poe’s book and do something along the lines of their atlas, honestly one of my favourite parts of PoE.

I would be surprised if they take it to that level, but maybe! They seem to have blended maps and rifts together and of course:

@Daria-11462

The keys sound great. I know they’re very similar to Mythics in WoW, but I also thought that was an excellent addition to WoW, so…

Mythic+ dungeons from WoW, which I also enjoy.

My favorite thing about the keystones is that the challenge of the dungeon is static, so I won’t always be forced to beat a 15 minute clock. I can make the build I want and then research dungeons that it might be effective at clearing. Good. Stuff.

I don’t mind at all if they have a hard cap in the Keyed Dungeons, as long as its like you say - quite difficult for the best of the best. I doubt the shadow of D3s shoddy scaling as time went on will manifest in Diablo 4, for various reasons. Though, I can see the level of Dungeon rising if they announce an expansion that raises level cap or something like that, which seems only natural.

Then again, I also don’t mind if its completely open ended, just as long as power creep isn’t introduced carelessly because “GR is infinite, so power creep doesn’t matter” type of logic.

[Daria-11462]

@Nickamus-1876

Mythic+ dungeons from WoW, which I also enjoy.

Yeah that’s what I meant. Forgot it’s also its own entire difficulty aside.

@Nickamus-1876

Though, I can see the level of Dungeon rising if they announce an expansion that raises level cap or something like that, which seems only natural.

This is why I think given the base game + expansions model of development lends itself best to avoiding any infinite progression whatsoever. Hard / nearly impossible hard cap material sounds best.

[Garret99-1779]

@Nickamus-1876

The takeaway for me when examining your experience and mine is that trading ought to be just part of end game player interaction - both a catalyst for other things and a goal at the same time. The rest of the game should offer compelling reasons for people to stick together, and I don’t mean in terms of difficulty. When a random person you meet can become a fast friend to play with, and the game itself has no mechanical barriers to playing with others (shared loot is why people don’t MF together in D2, and its a shame), great things can happen for the community.

Again I agree almost entirely with this.

[StrikerJolt-1840]

By the way, you should really apologize if you were truly an intellectual. Cause if you would’ve just said you were talking about d4.

I would’ve agreed and we could’ve discussed it. Instead of insulting me.

On topic, i don’t mind expansions as long it doesn’t invalidate old content.

I hate that most of the content in wow is being competely unused. Imagine if they made alll the raids and dungeons useful outside of transmogs.

[bkwrm79-1487]

@TOPCommander-1945

then create D4 a propper entry in the Diablo Franchise for those that want D4 to return to its roots with proper trading/leveling/character-building/gearing etc and push it to the next level?

Diablo is traditionally a single-player game, occasionally played multiplayer online. “Community” and trading were never ubiquitous parts of the D1/D2 experience, and the online requirement in D3 (which cost me a bunch of XP just now, as I was kicked just after completing a high GR (fortunately leveled gems and picked up loot, Blizzard’s servers glitched as I tried to portal back to town to close the rift) has always been the greatest flaw of the game.

D4 should go back to the roots of the Diablo franchise. I completely agree. That means making a single-player game, playable offline, with optional online gameplay as an extra for those who like that stuff, at least when Blizzard’s servers are behaving.

[Caballero-1284]

Basically laid out my feelings on trading in a post I was far too lazy to write. Well done!

[StrikerJolt-1840]

I didn’t sling any insults. Don’t worry. Lol.

[SoulGutter-1390]

I think you responded to my post. If you did, after re reading it I dont see any indication that I am in favor of what you asked. I think you mis interpreted what I was saying. I was asking someone those 2 questions based on what they said. If my phone has mislead me with the confusing layout then disregard.

[SoulGutter-1390]

I dont like Mythics in WoW. Same dungeon layout and everything. Just different affixes for bosses etc. D4 would have to do it differently. The outcome of which would dictate how long I played. I imagine how tough it can be to conjure up something unique instead of borrowing from another franchise, internal or external, but it would be nice to see that happen. For me, Mythics are a notable part of the blah that is retail WoW right now. But that debate isnt suited for this thread =p.

[Jaros-21723]

@WildOats-1705

People tend to exaggerate the need for open trading.

Nop, they don’t. They just see that if blizz fails to deliver at least middle ground trading that will please both parties this will be another failure

[Jaros-21723]

Man, I guess it’s time for somebody to create a poll regarding this subject. If blizz would make something like that it would be cool (and if they would post fair and square results too not altering anything).

Basically, it could contain several options:

1. Disable trading completely

2. Very limited trading ( blues, yellows, low tier mats, low? gems) and not even party found unique etc. drops can be traded

3. D3 Trading

4. Somewhat limited trading ( only maybe ancients, mythical and top crafts non-tradable)

5. LET’S PARTY aka full open trade

Isn’t there something like this yet?

[Jaros-21723]

@DeathBringer-12930

Open trading makes items worth something. It makes gold worth something. You can find an item twice and still feel like there is value . You can then trade that second item you found for something equally as important you were looking for and then both players are happy.

This is actually a very good point too which I also thought of.

While there is an economy in the game the items that drop have some value while in D3 nothing has any value. Maybe only if you would post your account somewhere on the forums for sale and sell whole account for real money. Although, I doubt that a lot of people would buy that since again everything that’s in you character aka items have 0 value.

Few days ago I’ve entered D3 to clean my stash and also to take some items from seasonal rollover to standard. I got fed up with this mess and guess what?
I asked myself how much are these items worth, sets, ancients whatever… Nothing. So, I decided to salvage it all :DDD Only leaving some gems, misc stuff, a primal maybe and a few ancients. That’s it.

Well, at least now I have a sh*t ton of space in my stash

So, I don’t think it is wise to create yet another game like D3 where people spend time playing it and probably the most important resource in arpg game - itemization is completely lost and has 0 value. Nice time investment. It’s not even a single player game (yet it feels this way) but your items mean nothing where you require internet connection… Double fail

[RUNtoFUN-2882]

no trading at all.
-another feature that will influence droprates.

[Shadout-2849]

@Jaros-21723

Man, I guess it’s time for somebody to create a poll regarding this subject.

It would be interesting. Only Blizzard could realistically make such a poll though (making sure to get a representative sample).
They probably have made some polling/focus group testing over the years, but not anything big I would assume, or we would likely know about it.

[Diabolical-11427]

D3 players play anything with the Diablo logo anyway. It’s the D2 players that Blizzard needs to earn back, and they know that. That’s the entire reason they’re getting back the darker, gothic theme.

[Diabolical-11427]

A poll on these forums would be pointless, as 99% of the D2 playerbase gave up on D3 months after release. In reality if you polled all of the Diablo franchise fans, 99% would want open trading.

On the YouTube updates from the dev team, every single upvoted comment is praising D2 and asking for a similar game. It’s just understandably different on D3 forums.

[StrikerJolt-1840]

@Nickamus-1876

I recently started Path of Diablo

Try out Diablo Enriched and Diablo 1 HD mod. Great times, I promise.

@Steve-6205

No it’s not both if it’s unbalanced. You have complete free trading, AH style, and anyone playing the game without trading will feel punished.

Feel punished?

Please explains MMORPGs, please explain the success of Diablo 1 and 2, please explain PoE if trading “punishes players for those who don’t want to trade” and if it “damages the game” you need to list actual examples of where trading damaged a game where be left.

I can be wrong, and you’re feel free to point to a single game, just one, to prove me wrong but I know you can’t.

@Steve-6205

In D3, I dare you to never play a GR next season.

Okay, easy, barely any of the 30 million potential players have I wouldn’t be surprised if the game only have 20,000 players. It’s embarrassing for a game that sold so well couldn’t and still doesn’t have the longevity and community of a game that’s 20 years old.

So, how about I don’t just play Diablo 3?

Besides. I’m not a freaking hamster, Rifts are freaking boring repetitive nonsense. It’s no better than doing 40 Baal runs in Diablo 2.

@Steve-6205

That’s how it feels when trading becomes OP and you don’t want to trade.

No, that’s a YOU problem because you’re so self absorbed that you think the game evolves around YOU.

Here, I’ll quickly end this debate. This is pretty much being against gay marriage and it’s almost exactly same type of argument.

If we both played Diablo 2 with current 50,000 players after 20 years (Last time I check, it’s been a quite long time since I jumped on the official Blizzard D2 multiplayer) and someone gave me a free Beast and Grief. (High end runewords in D2)

And Steve, me and you NEVER, EVER manage to play a game together. How does my character, have any effect on your play style? If we never play together, not even by accident how does my trade experience “punish” you?

Because if the answer is “No, it wouldn’t effect me that way.” then you shouldn’t be against trading.

[Shadout-2849]

@Diabolical-11427

A poll on these forums would be pointless

That is what I said.

@Diabolical-11427

On the YouTube updates from the dev team, every single upvoted comment is praising D2 and asking for a similar game. It’s just understandably different on D3 forums.

If you think polling youtube is any more useful than polling D3 forum, I dont know what to tell you though.

[StrikerJolt-1840]

@Shadout-2849

That is what I said.

First you need to explain why it would be useless. You can’t just claim something is useless because you personally wouldn’t like an outcome.

Are you just afraid that most people would vote for open trading, thus you would lose the debate out right?

(I’m not saying, we should just appeal to popularity.)

@Shadout-2849

If you think polling youtube is any more useful than polling D3 forum,

Again, explain WHY, you can’t just say something without backing it up.

And if polls are useless, please explain why polls aren’t useless when it comes to other aspects to life.

[Shadout-2849]

@StrikerJolt-1840

Try out Diablo Enriched and Diablo 1 HD mod. Great times, I promise.

Have you tried The Hell 2 mod for D1? If so, how does it compare.
Been looking at playing D1 again (but then I stumbled and installed D2 )

@StrikerJolt-1840

First you need to explain why it would be useless. You can’t just claim something is useless because you personally wouldn’t like an outcome.

Are you just afraid that most people would vote for open trading, thus you would lose the debate out right?

Because you cant produce a representative sample on the D3 forum, nor on youtube. (which I did say in my post btw)
Polls are not useless by default - quite the contrary. Useless polls are useless. Random internet polls automatically belongs to the latter group.