Agreed. In fact I think the only limiter on runewords should be the number of slots in an item you have available. And I think that if you trigger any of the runes in the word it should trigger all of them.
And, obviously, they need a huge variety of runes available for every class.
As with most item stats, I think rune effects should be class-agnostic.
So not affecting specific skills, but be stuff that can work for all classes depending on builds.
So, Trigger on doing fire dmg, trigger on hitting +5 mobs, trigger on casting a buff or a debuff etc. Never trigger on casting specific abilities, or enhance specific abilities. That is what legendary items are for.
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Just look at that. Game engine specialist we got here, rofl.
It definitely seems like you’re someone that would enjoy Diablo III more then, or perhaps you like the attack/defense system that they have in place right now. Complexity isn’t a bad thing, to a point. Neither is having intuitive systems in place which seems to be what you’re liking about the rune system as they have it currently, and thats awesome. They SHOULD, however; also add some actual real runewords. Unfortunately, they didn’t show us a single one at Blizzcon.
The rune system I saw at Blizzcon would be AWESOME if that was the system in its simplist form, thats just the base rune effects and what happens when you slap them in your gear. Awesome, but where are the “rune words” like Breath of the Dying, or Enigma, there are too many to name here…but again, they didn’t show us any actual rune words reminiscent of Diablo II.
I think there is room for both class neutral and class specific affixes in all items.
- +bonus on cast should absolutely exist, but +bigger bonus on cast class specific skills can also exist
Do you actually have anything to contribute to the conversation?
Or do you just take issue with people discussing game theory?
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I agree with OP.
In D2 there was an opportunity cost of wearing items. HotO had more cast rate and allres but Death’s Fathom gave you more damage meaning you had to get allres and cast rate on something else. There were budget alternatives and your build wasn’t tied to legendary skill rune like effects like in D3.
Items of all types were useful too. White/grey runeword bases, 3/20 magic javazon gloves, magic 3/3 assassin claws, magic amulets with good stats, rare/crafted amulets, rings and gloves could be best in slot.
PoE follows a similar path for the most part.
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I fear it just means you end up with hundreds or thousand of different runes (to take into account all the possible combinations), which I think would ruin an otherwise simple and elegant system (and yeah, simple systems with lots of depth is a positive thing, complexity for the sake of complexity should not be its own goal).
One way to bring in skill-specific runes could be to add a third type instead. “Power” runes or whatever. Like “+50% increased effect, but only works with Fireball”, trading the generic effect for more specialized power, which you can then chain with a cause-rune “trigger on hitting with a fire spell” (or whatever else), and an effect rune “explodes for 500 dmg” etc.
The term epic is overused. Diablo has NOTHING to do with epicness. Remember Epic d3 orchestra’s music.
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Part of the issue for me with the itemization is that it sort of goes hand in hand with how the skill/stat system is designed. If the skill and stat system is oversimplified than it is tough to make itemization interesting.
For example the skill synergy system in D2 meant that items with affixes that were + to whatever skills your build needed had a lot of value if it coincided with the build you were trying to make.
Or you had certain runewords that offered + to skills that some classes didn’t even have making those super valuable if they fit with another classes skills or playstyle. Also, if you didn’t want to have to waste skill points in a different tree but wanted the skill it added value ( if everyone can cycle through skills at will or the skill tree isn’t built so that characters can use these other skills this aspect of itemization is obsolete(
Or if you build the skill/stat system similar to what D3 had at one point where everyone just wanted to stack Crit % and damage etc then only these items are now of value.
I just think its an aspect of itemization people keep skipping over it really goes hand in hand if you want to have a diverse item system that’s interesting and doesn’t only involve the same cookie cutter items for every single person there has to be some customization or complexity in the stats/affixes that are valuable and I am not sure if Blizzard really understands how to do this at the moment but I hope it comes along in development.
I dont think its complexity for its own sake. In fact runewords that are literally just supercharged versions of their component runes would be a simple and easy to understand way to get a large amount of build variety and choice without adding a lot of new systems that add an illusion of choice.
The d2 rune system required memorization or guides to use effectively. Thats the opposite of a simple and elegant system imo
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We certainly agree on that.
And I think we agree on the skill-affecting runes too. Maybe except on how to achieve it.
I think I like the idea of legendary/set affixes being built into runes as a concept because d3 legendary affixes were build defining.
And if i can choose which combination of those build defining affixes I use by choosing runewords then I see myself having a large amount of agency in how my character actually plays.
I also have this idea that a BIS item should be a top tier item (leg, ancient, mythic) with multiple slots (thus enabling the use of a runeword or multiple gems)
As an aside, can we all agree that skulls are cool and need to come back as a type of gem?
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Since the game is still over a year away I hope they consider making items and crafting a lot more complex and interesting than D3.
D3’s biggest weakness by far, even after changes in RoS, was all item related. While RoS had more going on on items than D3v, RoS itemization still sucks and combining different items is just a requirement to progress past a certain level with a certain ability rather than say PoE’s uniques which combine at least occasionally in interesting ways to change the way you play.
Path of Exile isn’t my favorite game for various other reasons, but the way it does items and crafting is miles ahead of Diablo currently (ignoring the fact that getting the full experience is trade dependent while they simultaneously refuse to add more accessible trade built into the game, which is that games biggest weakness).
Just in terms of item design, I feel like PoE was an evolution of the original ARPGs where D3 is just a massive oversimplification which makes items boring and uninteresting. They don’t need to overload you with boring or pointless fluff stats, but they should have interesting designs that combine with other items in interesting ways and the crafting system should also allow for interesting potential as well, rather than D3’s massively lackluster version of crafting.
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Dear Blizzard,
Firstly, great job on current D4 concept! I feel you deserve more positive feedback, I loved what i have seen. Some people may desire overcomplicated systems from past decades which only give illusion of choice while in the end they boil down to attack and defense. I am glad you can separate important affixes from less important stats.
As i understand gear, runes and talents are three intertwined systems of character customisation that are currently planned. As many mention I very much hope runes will allow for more than just simple combinations showcased during Blizzcon. Regarding lesser number of gearslots, I believe if each character could have its own, extra slot (barbarian for example has extra slots) for his specific class (druid - totem, sorceres - orb) this would be very thematic and would add extra slot to play around with.
Please dont get discouraged by some of the less constructive criticism. I like all concept…except MICROTRANSACTIONS!!!
This. There’s no need for splitting attack into damage an accuracy.
Or for splitting defense into damage reduction and dodge.
Frankly speaking, you need both of those things on a build focused on either.
And if we mush those 4 stats into 2, then if we have, say, dodge chance as a secondary stat its actually more powerful and build defining than if we just have to pump points into dexterity.
I’m remembering all those cynical Brother Laz articles about how Diablo players don’t know what they actually want, how ARPG choices may seem superficially interesting but always collapse to the most efficient builds, items, and stats dominating and rendering all others pointless beyond providing, as you say, an illusion of choice – but the player knows they’re smart and won the game with their superior decision making because there were 372 garbage boots, and they chose the best boot and won, unlike the noobs who invested points into mana.
I don’t know what Laz is up to nowadays, but I’m sure he would find all this very amusing.
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I think it could work well like that. With a small difference in the main stats (attack/defense) or could have the same attack and defense: the additional stats given by the different tiers are more than enough to make a difference.
I am more for the 2nd option bcs it would allow the player to use runes on that item and give it some power and make it useful until find something better.
This is how it should be done.
The best rolled Magic or Rare should be as hard to find as the best rolled Legendary.
Let’s say Magic items only have 1-2 affixes, getting the maximum values on these should be super hard.
Way too many legendary items dropped.
Every streamer who played Diablo IV had MULTIPLE legendary item drop for them.
That literally never happend with Diablo 2, a Unique drop in Diablo 2 at a low level was incredibly rare.
let alone the amount of SoJ’s found, might as well be worthless.
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