Yep. Blizzard sadly seems afraid of creativity these days.
To make it more silly, they have decided to talk about “player choice” in their PR announcements these days.
The freedom to do exactly as told.
Sadly true, the revelation of class indicators on items for D4 was a huge blow to creativity if it works as dreaded. Granted the majority of those insane build ideas would result in just really, truly awful builds, but it’s the chance of finding that rare gem. Where doing something completely off the wall ends up being the most fun you will ever have in the game.
Could not disagree more. I like that classes in D4 are grounded in the roleplay of what they are. I don’t think a Barbarian should use a bow or a scythe just like I don’t think a sorceress should use a two handed axe.
This isn’t “lacking creativity” it’s a specific choice not to go as crazy as a game like POE.
I support the decision to not have insane amounts of builds and keep the roleplay of each class more defined.
Considering that the entire class concept of the Barbarian was to be that they out of all the classes can use any weapon they like (perhaps that has changed in development, which if so is sad also). Barbarians are meant to be masters of armed combat. The ability to pick up nearly anything handy and use it as a lethal weapon is pretty much what the class was meant to be.
The revelation that, this weapon and now this other weapon also, are off limits to Barbarians whittles away at their unique class mechanic in a truly disgusting way.
What next, Barb can also not use a magic staff… Because “Oh, Magic Bad, Me Dumb Barb, go smash!!!”
I can just imagine the movie Conan showing a scene where several bloodthirsty foes are rushing him and the only thing nearby happens to be a bow. But Conan says no, the rules say I can’t use that so I won’t pick it up and use it to defend myself… Rules are rules!!!
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I don’t really care for sub classes nor talents. I want the “sub class” to be made through gear. If that makes sense. I want to mix and match gear to actually build something I find fun to play. That means tons of find items to find with awesome powers attached. Some that are for the class and some that aren’t. I hate items that just give a % amount of something. Instead of increasing the power, just increase the amount of stuff I can do. Like 3 more fireballs, or add a dot, make minions do different attack patterns. All those powers can roll on each piece of gear. If I find two different pieces of gear with “3 more fireballs”, they will add up to 6 fireballs instead. Heck, that power can be for all classes. Every time you use a skill 3 fireballs are fired.
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Sure Conan might pick up a bow to take out an enemy if he needed to. But if he was searching for the ultimate weapons and gear, why would he choose a bow over two handed or duel wielding swords, hammers and axes? He wouldn’t. Conan runs into battle to melee people and smash their skulls in.
This is why the Barbarian should never be seen with a bow in its hand.
Thank Diablo the devs agree.
I’m against it. $&@#%
Nope. Not in ARPGs, that’s never a good design in this genre.
Honestly, the way I see it is if there’s either:
- Lore that supports classes using weapon types outside of what the community expects as the norm for the class (in this case a Barb using a bow, or a sorceress a melee weapon).
and/or:
- No Lore that actually states that a class could never use a weapon type for whatever reason, or that only so-and-so class can use certain weapon type.
Then I see no reason as to why I Barbarian shouldn’t use a bow or scythe, or a Sorceress use a 2 handed axe. That said, even if they could use said weapons, it wouldn’t be much point if the classes didn’t have a default weapon attack that’s based on the equipped weapon. Because from what it looks like, it doesn’t look like there will be default weapon attacks like there was in the previous games (D1, D2, and D3).
Even if there is not much purpose to a barb using a bow, it should not be prevented.
Just completely unnecessary to limit such a thing.
There really should be a default attack though 
I dont know if we can rule out there being one. We haven’t seen it afaik. But it also isn’t the most interesting thing ever to show off in a presentation. Did they show off D3s default attack in presentations either?
I feel like “Bow Barb” would be a joke class.
“Lol there goes a Bow Barb!”
“Lmao look an axe sorceress!”
Where as I’m going face palm “An axe sorceress…”
The aesthetic of D4 looks so good. Grounded. The devs called it not necessarily “realistic” but “BELIEVABLE”. As soon as we start laughing at aesthetic combinations this aesthetic dies for me.
A Bow Barbarian doesn’t even sound like a real thing. Can you really describe a bow user as some who is “extremely brutal” “primitive and uncivilized” “coarse and unrefined”. It’s a precision weapon that takes disciplined practice, patience and precision.
A 2 handed Axe Sorceress is equally as silly to me.
Seeing these classes running around would not make the world feel believable to me, quite the opposite.
These insane class combinations should be left to POE imo.
Funnily enough, both of those (bow barb and 2 handed axe sorceress) would be very believable in Diablo’s setting. Again if you know the lore, you’d know that there were barbarians (while not as many as those who used throwing axes) who wielded bows, just as there were sorceresses who wielded melee weapons. Now if you either don’t know the lore or care for it, then sure I can see how it wouldn’t be very believable.
Yeah most people don’t they just want the game to look good instead of shoehorning in obscure lore.
Can’t say I’m one of them, as having the game “look good” at the cost of customization and lore consistency makes a poor trade imo.
I don’t think customisation or lore consistency will suffer that much tbh. How it looks is extremely important to me especially seeing how beautiful the game is turning out.
Immersion is extremely important in this Diablo as it was missing from D3 big time.
Before you know it we’ll have to put a secret cow level or rainbow unicorns in to honour the lore if we need to include every tiny detail. It was part of D3.
And there will be plenty of customisation without needing to have a skill tree like POE.
Problem here is that Whimsyshire (the area with the rainbows and unicorn) isn’t a part of lore (even D3’s lore). It’s in the game sure, but it has no presence in the lore itself. For example, not a single npc made a comment about Whimsyshire, or any of it’s creatures. And if you killed any of the creatures there, you don’t get any lore books that talks about the creature, like you would any other enemy that you kill for the first time.
So yeah, Whimsyshire isn’t a part of the lore, it’s simply an easter egg, like the secret cow level; and honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if D4 have more easter eggs like them.
From a roleplaying point of view, linked with history, groves, order houses, monasteries, guilds and there story around, absolutely perfect.
If this is then further divided into good and evil by a main story like in Diablo and each faction has its own specific classes and systems and tasks to it and a good background base, then it has a dramatically positive effect on the role-playing experience.
Especially if it is not too simple, trivial and quickly passed over, but if it accompanies you as a second mainstay, but does not seem too much math, but is rather integrated into the world in terms of history.
Specializations, but then initiate just before maximum level to then have a great development engine over add ons away as an endgame. Speak another kind of way after the way. To do this, you can then also wonderful while playing an add on or the main game, further content on the RPG basis slowly integrate.
This will create a very deep development and a strong individualization of the classes.
This means, however, that a balance must be omitted. The classes must not and should not compete with each other in RPGs. That’s not what it should be about, so no sport and comparison around numbers, but RPG just class depth, story, paths, survival of the adventure world … just really good RPG. In addition, a simple re-skilling to other specializations is not possible… Decisions are important, or new class…
That would be even more important for a MMORPG and there then with professions and a much better NPC world and a dynamic, authentic preparation of the world, etc…
All this should actually be standard, the development there we have only missed for 20 years…
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It baffles me that you STILL treat ARPG:s as RPG:s. It’s not the same genre.
A Barb being able to use bows has very little meaning if all the barb can do is default attack with the bow. There would need to be some way that access to actual bow abilities can be possible, lets say for example Multishot.
Now Multishot will probably not be available as part of a Barbs skill selection.
Could the Paragon Board grants the use of off class abilities if specced into?
Rare item affixes wich grants lvl xx Multishot?
Legendary item affix?
Some other system?
Lets say the barb has some synergy with Multishot in the form of shouts that work with it. Or increased physical damage etc etc. And now suddenly you have a viable Barb that can use Multishot with a bow.
The same can be said for a Sorc with Multishot. Maybe they have elemental damage synergies and can make Multishot do good lightning damage?
This opens the game up and allows creativity and theorycrafting. And many many more builds.
Rykker made a video a while ago, saying there are pros & cons to class identities in arpg.
Games like Wolcen, PoE has less class identity, while a game like Diablo has strong class identities.
There is pros & cons to both. There is no one is better. But he said, & I agree, that Diablo is a series with a strong class identity (while is linked to lore & aesthetics as well) & should stay this way.
I think you can have some overlap, like bear sorc in D2. But if it becomes too muddy, identity of a class will be lost. Many players (me included) wanted to look the part, while dealing damage, & this look is missing in game with open class(es).
When I play a melee build welding a big S hammer, I wanted to looks beef up like conan, wearing big S armor, & not looking like malnutrition 5 footer. He would also be rough & talk trashy.
if I play a sorc, I expect he/she to be more elegant, & move more gracefully, & speak with fake English accent.
It’s part of the fantasy. I am sure there are some that want their spell caster to looks like a beefcake, but I think these are exceptions, not norm.
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