While true we don’t know anything about D4’s endgame yet, it’s still valid to not want it to follow in the footsteps of other online games. As is, the multiplayer gap exists within D3 beyond the innate advantages of multiplayer itself. The moment anything becomes too difficult or out of reach for the solo player, I’d say D4 failed, because it’s that pursuit of ease/saving time that facilitates meta play. It wasn’t that other group formations couldn’t beat content in XI, it’s that they weren’t as much of a sure thing or yielded as much loot.
An unlearn token could have shards if need be to do lesser things like X skill points, X stat points or something.
You could have a vendor that changes an unlearn token plus X gold or whatever to the type you want, just like the gem scrolls from the little girl vendor in act 2 in D3 for the D2 players.
Again this could not be done if you had to trade your token to a vendor.
How about an Amoury type of think with only Solo - Multi - PvP slots that are unlocked with Tokens?
That way you can change just enough to play in groups or solo, maybe with a small cost per swap so its not a free change each time and you can still micro manage each build as needed.
Say it now. They’ll push multiplayer as much as they can in D4, that’s what would bring them most profits due to MTX purchases. I also don’t expect an SSF mode in D4.
Except you totally missed where they said you can totally play alone and find the best gear by yourself. No need for a specific mode.
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We know some. We know about keyed dungeons.
Except SSF is as popular as HC in PoE. So, you say, no need for HC too in D4?
You already know what modes it will release with because…
So why not just tell us which modes it has, when it’s released and which classes are initially available?
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I fear they might change their tune on that one. There was some indications at Blizzcon, that they might consider having raids in the game. Ugh.
Apples to oranges. You will not need to group to find gear in D4. Hardcore is has nothing to do with finding gear.
Like what? Unless I missed something I got no indication that would be the case.
As far as I recall, they talked about adding group only challenges in some of the interviews, and how it could be “interesting”.
To be fair, a lot of the interviews at Blizzcon were pretty bad and mostly “we cant deny or confirm anything/we have no idea what we want with the game and will just agree with whatever the interviewer says”, so who knows.
I don’t know everything.
If you put a mode for X percent of player base, you have to do this with other modes of similar implementation difficulty having same expected population too. That’s what’s logical.
Also, there’s huge difference between playing solo/alone and playing in an SSF mode from a competitive pov. SSF races are the best way to measure individual player’s skill since in a trade mode you can get all the goodies from outside. SSF is very popular in PoE.
They dont have to do anything like that.
Again, HC and self found are completely different things and no you don’t.
And funny you bring up logic when you have that giant thread of non logic about CPO.
Sure, they have. That’s how you gain players.
If they add say a Challenge Rift mode that’s played by enough people, they profit from that as long as the newly attracted players invest back in the game.
One of the reasons that made D3 rip is everyone got tired of doing GRs all the time. The D3 developers didn’t provide an alternative.
Same is with the SSF and HC - they are alternatives to the standard softcore trading format.
No. ‘Because you have A, you also must have B’ is not logic. Nor will it somehow automatically give you more players.
Dont get me wrong, they certainly should have a mode where you cant trade (but it should obviously also have multiplayer). Hell, it should be the only mode around. And an SSF challenge mode would also be a good thing to have.
It still does not follow that because they have HC they also must have SSF.
HC or whatever. As long as you do it for X percent of players with one mode you do it with other also.
- 11% of Diablo 3 players do HC
- 11% of PoE players do SSF (and I suppose HC too)
- If 11% would do mode X, you add mode X
- Apples to oranges conversion
Rhyk mentioned compromises are not always the best choice, and D4’s respec “compromise” is totally no exception.
D2, no respects initially, forced reroll if u find gear / want to change builds. This is fine IF the replayed content is super enjoyable, such as getting rushed if that’s your thing, or solo, say you like Matt U’s soundtrack and the exploring w/o help from others, for me that was fun, NOT being boosted by others/bots, going my own way, a non youtube way, self thinker.
I understand not all gamers are ‘thinker’ gamers and just want to look up a build, rush it out, get to max level, and in 2 weeks hunt for the best gear in the game, and check out of diablo, then check back in, never leveling again. There are, unfortunately, people like that, but it has to be a market they hit, even if it’s not how many of us were back in the old days.
D2 later added 3 respecs, fixed in time, so you couldnt respec when you hit duriel, then respec at diablo bc you’re build isnt so great for both. That is a good compromise that D2 added into it’s own game. It has respec, w/o a token, during the leveling, but very, very limited, and fixed, and free.
At that same patch i believe D2 added tokens, the ‘late game respec’ or "trade to a brand new player and give them unlimited respects at all leverls’ which barely anyone did, so it’s not a common enough thing, as we all know, to argue that trading tokens so someone can level ‘better’ was a common situation happening in d2 bc it clearly was not. But it could be, should D4 allow free trade and have tokens, unlikely, but for completion.
Tokens hit the “my blizz sorc is struggling in act 1 hell” problem, allowing many to respec dual ele to get by, frustratingly, to then join chaos baal games if online and leech from bots.
Tokens basically say “you dont have to relevel” which is both horrible and super awesome at the same time. It’s horrible bc it takes the replayability right out of the game for 2 chars of the same class committing to 2 different builds. It allows one to swap which is so, so, so unfantasy.
So blizz seemed to not want anyone ever to have 2 chars of the same class. Evidenced by tokens and their low barrier to get.
Well, so what do you do given all this for D4?
Well don’t do what D3 did.
D3 had open respec always forever, and we all see how that turned out, no commit, no feeling of choice mattering, no fantasy, no growing, just free swap ocean. So you dont want free respec, but you want to allow people to respec at max level, should that be the compromise from classic to D2 lod.
Ok, how about 1 respec per static difficulty, with tokens late game, that hopefully have a high barrier to get?
Why isn’t THAT on their board?
What’s up with not doing almost exactly what D2 did but raising the token cost like greatly? Why is that not hitting all the right boxes for targeting new players (1 free respect per difficulty + hard respects for late game swaps)?
Does diablo 4 even have static difficulties or are they not like ok with setting a risk out there for us to overcome, a game, a benchmark? Is it all slider? See, in order for D2’s way (upped token cost) to work, the game has to have static difficulties for those 1 free per difficutly to even be possible.
So, i think D4 is going away from static difficulties? Can anyone confirm this MAJOR choice if it’s true?? So, assoming D4 has no static difficulties, well, then respec at your own choice is the only way, and the problem here is “LOW” cost at first…
“LOW” means low. it does not mean medium, or somewhat hard. It means basically free. AND, unlike D2, repeatable quickly, not gated to a next difficulty. So, where’s the committment in that? "I dont care what i choose, how bout the strongest leveling build, from youtube, i can always, at a…low…cost respec next hour to something else?
Its super bad because its “low” at first, not “medium”.
That one change would solve it all.
I mean assuming its not something you can save up for on your account or pass on to a new char, like gold in D2 by dropping it or so, or an item.
See, skill respecs are really, truly, for what?
“I mis-clicked?” Yea, THAT part makes total sense to have respec be avail early on, but it doesnt have to be a total respec, just a 1pt redo button, for misclicks. Like, problem solved, easy, and it’s still fantasy just put the button top right of the skill tree or so.
Other reasons to respec?
“I’m struggling my build isn’t powerful”
Well, is that the game’s fault, or your own, for either not guessing right, studying right, planning “the strongest build”? Or, is it also your fault for not staying with a ‘weak’ build you intentionally knew would be weaker but you tried out?
Why does everyone have to suffer, because people don’t want to stick with their choice? Why is rerolling a char, not that that is the perfect way to handle this, D2’s lod way but modified, is. But why is rerolling a char so hated in 2020? Why is replaying early content “Bad” these days? Is every gamer not ok with getting into a game? Do new players NOT value that, which is totally a blanket assumption they’re making?
If you want most OP leveling, pick those skills, they’ll be on youtube in 1 hour after release, forever. Updated by the minute on twitch and all internet ever. You have no reason to try a “tier 3 leveling build” and want to respec to “best build” because you got tired of being slow. Just go fastest if speed is the prio, instead of being different.
The big big big problem with this low respec early on cost is “when the game gets hard, respec is the first option” and that was NOT the case in diablo 2, that was not the case in d1, this is total bogus, destroys committment and fantasy.
“Duriels hard, brb lm respec”
That’s whats going to happen…9/10 games.
“can i watch u respec?”
“yea want to respec w me later? its low cost early”
“ok! Lets respec many times this difficulty ok every time it gets hard?”
“Yes respec bc its low cost, its so underpriced!”
“How do i know what to respec TO tho?”
“Youtube, silly! It’s right there alt tab hit it up!”
“i love underpriced things, its basically free so who cares what we even respec to, we can respec our respec, in 5 min, yes?”
“THAT, is correct, Mrs. Vaughn” (Billy Madison / Chris Farley reference).
Like, thats going to be leveling you guys, please tell me how it wont be?
Nobobys committed, everyone has the freedom to respec, bc its “LOW” cost at first. Also solo, you’re like “does it matter what i start out with, i can always respec for a low cost…anytime bc its low” Super bad choice, leveling ruining, they want us to rush to max level by swapping to most op leveing build by that low cost their starting it at. Just like D3.
So, change “low” to “medium” and problem solved, all of it.
We know when blizz says “Low” they mean “not medium”. So, lets envision, 2 rubys or something, or, 200 gold. Its going to ruin the game, bc leveling matters, and a low cost is like the same thing as no cost. Why can’t they go to D2’s way of static difficulties, 1 respec, free, per level, but not repeatable anytime, and high cost tokens endgame???
WHY is the initial cost to respec “Low”…this is like, the most D3 thing, but worse bc skills will have power, that could come to D4. W/o a doubt, forget leveling being anything commitment anymore. Not all new players want to swap builds several times early, just realize some new players are like into committing, so are veteran ppl. They’re acting like “leveling needs lots of swapping” is the goal, and that is SO undiablo 1/2, and so diablo 3. If we have the option, nobody’s on the same playing field for leveling, so its not a “Just dont do it” thing, a game is meant to be played without a shortcut path, like, if D2 had respec early low cost, basically nobody would group, bc someone in that group would go best build and steamroll the content for all of us. Nobody would plan a build either, bc u can just swap to the best per level-range ur at if it aint’ working, at a low cost. Just like D3, but worse, bc skills got power now, its less gear dependent.
“Struggling at Andariel? Choose these skils respec to them its cheap early”
“Struggling at Duriel? Choose these skills respect to them it’s cheap early”
and so on.
Even, “this corner of that map is hard sorta? Swap to these skills, then once through that one corner, swap back to your build, both swaps are cheap, its low cost”.
See the problem?
ITs alll because its low cost early.
D2’s way was 1 free, which is less than low cost, but higher bc it was limited to 1 per difficulty (sans trading tokens to a new char or account). Overall, D2 had more comittment in leveling, no doubt, than this “low cost respec early” way their doing for D4.
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You’re from the future though, and therefore you’re discussing things that (for you) have already happened. So, you know, just Google the answer, copy it, time-travel back here, and paste it into a reply.
Also, how many fingers am I holding up?
(I’ll tell you if you got it right after you answer)
None. You are typing on the keyboard.
Can’t you write anything topic-related, Meteor?
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