And you will get belittled by elitists with superior complex if you put a wrong skill.
Exhibit A is WoW classic vs. subsequent expansions. Late game in WoW classic entails gearing up, which is tied to the items/inventory system that you have from the start. You know things well in advance, such as that your upgrade is set to be replaced because thatâs the nature of items as replaceable objects. Whereas in later expansions you are foisted with glyphs, runes, this and that with no prior perspective as to their function or nature. At the upteenth hour mark no less. And I find it telling that these systems are constantly getting replaced & re-replaced (meanwhile the OG talents are back in full force, fancy that). Not a fan personally, but then I was never a huge MMO mogul in which there is a certain appeal to endless avenues & rabbit holes. WoW classic had these same avenues, they were just more correlated to eachother, the separation between them was fairly ambiguous. The game was just straightforward enough.
It doesnât matter if itâs a long journey it doesnât make sense and feels off when your character starts âgetting strongerâ after killing the final boss
If it was stuff like ADA it might feel more consistent but not with classic attributes
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Exactly this.
The above is what makes them equally valuable.
Yep.
It has been strongly indicated by Blizzards more recent blogs and in-game screenshots.
Indeed. Removed from 1-50 = Removed.
Being able to âchooseâ between Main stat and Vit for 20,000 ⌠paragon lvls does not suddenly mean we are allocating attribute points in D3. Just a separate trash system.
There is no main attribute in those games. Different attributes scales different dmg types.
Builds exist of nearly any combination of attributes in those games.
They dont offer the best attribute systems I have seen (as Lolli said, different genres), that honor goes to Pillars of Eternity, but Souls games surely have better attribute systems than D3 main stats, by far.
Yes, JRPGs in general are infamous for having terrible stat systems.
The right approach for sure.
I dont know the game, but definitely what I have argued for over the years as well.
Yeah, really bad design.
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This, this may strike near the heart of the issue. There is a gulf of difference between D2 and freaking POE. And I would wager that the vast majority of this (supposed) demographic would respond positively to D2 levels of customization. In any case I daresay that this demographic is largely imagined and/or their needs are severely misinterpreted. Very young people naturally want something big to chew on, they want something too big for their britches because they want to grow to fill it. Besides, broadly speaking, the world is smaller than ever you know, aggregates are losing cohesion and decentralization is intensifying. Viewing players as either âoutliersâ or part of the âaggregateâ, rather than individuals, doesnât serve the game. Even very similar people can have radical differences too. Weâre all different. Conclusion? Core players ought to be prioritized no ifs and or buts, because if the game is good it will naturally convert casuals to core players.
Having said that D2 attributes are pretty drab and sloppy, particularly when things like +str have zero impact due to breakpoints. (At the start, it takes more than +5 str to gain a single point of damage.) If that is indeed the best idea/execution on offer, yes itâs probably better to omit it altogether. But damn.
Its the old dinos trying to find differences between d4 and d2.
They still havnt realised that d4 is a new game and not d2 remaster. As long as they do the opposite of what shadeout wants then it will cater the majority.
They love to complain before they even tried the game. Fun fact is some of the same ppl alrdy stated they wont buy d4 because no offline mode etc. So why they still come here is simply because of their OCD.
The beta is out. Ppl need to stop speculating about how its going to turn out based on their emotions. Some ppl here just complain about anything. Obv some things might change as its only beta and its for the endgame testing.
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This might be semantics but I donât agree.
If the most efficient/strongest (best in this context) build for a class is to put X amount of points into a stat but you prefer another playstyle entirely it is worse but still meaningful since you play the way you want to. Using an ice version of meteor even though fire is just better is still a meaningful choice if you want an ice mage. Like just because Pestilence is an awful idea if you want a strong Necro it doesnât mean it is a meaningless choice.
You can have it in other things as well. A side quest with an option of how to complete it. Letâs say you encounter Gharbad the weak again (please he has to be in the game). You can kill him after he makes your item like he made for you in Diablo 1 or you let him live. Letting him live gives you an item that increases mana regen and killing him grants you access to his little khazra hovel which contains a really strong damage dealing item which increases your levelling speed. Since it is early game your mana regen is still low but the more efficient way is to just spam mana potions, but you donât like constantly doing that so you decide on the mana regen even though it objectively prolongs your play through. That is definitely a meaningful choice.
Yes, you have your justified fears that the game will be cut down to a trivial endgame again.
The most important thing for D4 is that it doesnât feel from minute 1 as if everything you do is irrelevant and itâs just about getting through the usual junk of the permanent spiral and basically all classes feel like soup.
But it seems to be going in that direction again⌠Blizz either learns absolutely nothing, or it is simply unavoidable because the thrust is given by people who have no interest in the game, but want to see other goals implemented with it.
If it comes like this, D4 is just another huge hype to end up with a totally boring and worn out always the same content that revolves around spreadsheets with colorful effects and the usual way too fast tunnel you are supposed to run through. I donât buy it anymore, itâs not worth it. Maybe once for 1x play through in 2 years in the sale for a tennerâŚ
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If you want to complain, at least made clear statements instead of some attempt at poetry.
More âus vs. themâ crap, this sort of mentality is the reason that D3 sucked the big one (likewise the âesport schismâ that destroyed Overwatch): Thinking that the millions of D2 players didnât come from all walks of life. As if D2 isnât extremely simple & straightforward enoughâŚawkward controls notwithstanding (but D2R fixed that)âŚbut yeah man. Youâre acting like people are calling for D2âs old control scheme and things like that. This is not reality, not here and I wager not anywhere.
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The lack of self awarenessâŚ
The clear giveaway of a D2 fanboy /D3 hater. Also, empty D3 profile, show never played D3, not at least for a While.
There is D2R, just go play that already.
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Iâm keenly aware that much of what I say is self-applicable. But the fact remains that D3 is squarely focused on âforever charactersâ at the expense of alts, hardcore mode compared to D2. I think itâs fair to say D3 sucks the big one in that regard. Because I doubt that the appeal if new characters / hardcore mode is beyond imagining even if you donât personally enjoy that aspect whatsoever.
Did you pool the 65 million players over the last 10 years?
I say let D4âs launch success or failure settle the matter. Iâll concede my point if D4 is even half as explosive as D3. Either way the writing will be on the wall as to how excited people are for D4 in the wake of D3.
True. Did D2 has 65 million players over the last 20 years?
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D2 was never F2P in China though.
Also gaming is magnitudes more popular than 20 years ago but letâs ignore that in order to communicate that D3 is perfectly fine?..well Iâve come to expect better than fine from Blizzard.
I find it interesting that some of the D2 fanboys have this unusual need to continually post 
on the D3 forum. It appears that D4 might not have a forum so some of these same people will flood the D3 forum with the âwhy is it not like D2â nonsense at launch. I remember how they were crying about the amazons face in D2R, funny stuff. I no longer post on the D2R forum, it appears that a small vocal faction wants to dictate everything because they are stuck in the year 2000.
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This is the graveyard for all things Diablo. Sorry that it also happens to be the definitive place to discuss D3, and that thereâs no viable alternative to discuss D4 that isnât also afforded to D3 discussion (D3 subreddit). Itâs only that Iâm not so keen on social media as I suspect many of you arenât either.
The difference is, & this is an clear observation anyone that regular here, as well as Diablo & Diablo 4 sub reddit is how toxic D2 fanboys are against anything D3, & that its a âFACTâ everythng about D3 sucks, & anything recembled D3 must sucks. The only more toxic community are PoE fanboys, they are not just toxic but delusional.
D3 fans however, are FAR FAR more rational & respectful, & do recognised the flaws of D3.
Also, being forum members of other looters ike outrider & Borderlans, D3is FAR more respected, & many of these game picked up design from D3.
Shockingly for you maybe, many D3 fans also like D2, & play & like D2.
That is a fact that they miss or cannot comprehend. I have played every instalment of the game. I consider myself to be a Diablo fanboy not a D3 fanboy. I like and dislike aspects of all of the instalments. I do not have the need to go to the D2R forum and complain about what I dislike in D2R/D2. I know for a fact that some D2 players have never played Diablo, D3, or D($) Immortal. I am sure some of them will never play D4.
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