Early D3 alpha had “talisman” concept as a separate inventory for charms, but it didn’t make it into the final build (probably because charms were there just for additional item slots to fill and didn’t have an interesting purpose). Magic Find though made it into the game, but was scrapped later in ROS.
I was thinking about the idea of combining these two (in D4): talisman filled with charms and its one and only purpose is raising your MagicFind stat. But then again, do we really need these two in a new Diablo game? Is there any unique role this talisman could play? Do we need MagicFind at all or ROS devs were right to cut it out from the game?
That being said, I like the very idea of altering drop probabilities in some ways - for example, when tougher monsters have better chances to drop something valuable. And I also miss “difficulties/locations” factor in ROS. I mean, it just feels good to know that certain difficulties/locations have better chances to drop something particular (items or affixes on them can be even tied to a location thematically). I think D3ROS lost a part of its diablo identity when it made everything drop everywhere on any difficulty (just the amount of items varies). What are your thoughts?
It’s okay to have areas with higher drop rates for certain crafting materials or uniques, as long as you still could fine these anywhere in the game.
They know how to handle magic find - if it’s in the game it won’t compete with power affixes.
Charms are a problematic mechanic due to it bringing simply more power creep. Some guy suggested this before (turn charms into PoE jewels):
While sacrificing a skill node for a charm could work in theory, in practice it would be easy to simply switch a +20 Strength skill node to +21 Strength charm. There isn’t much thinking here.
Anyone who tries to implement the charms/jewels mechanic needs to make it in such a way that it brings some power together with some meaningful decisions the player has to make. If you simply full up your inventory with charms before a PvP battle like in D2, this is a trash mechanic.
Yes, for this reason I offered to combine these two: There are charms, but what they do is adding MagicFind (no other items can have this affix, making charms unique in this way).
But there shouldn’t: it is there just to add both into the game in a “safe” way. D2 and early D3 made it really bad with making possible MF rolls on all items (which made almost everything without MF undesirable and so D3ROS devs removed it completely). MF charms can change that, but again, as I asked, do we really need MF at all in the game.
Maybe, if implemented with the Talisman, the stat can be diversified in some way. Like, chance to get more blues, chance to get more yellows, chance to get more such or such affixes on the items - whatever…
Yes, that’s the way D4 devs aim to do magic find as long as I remember from interviews. They’ll give some treasure hunting properties and you’ll have to choose which you prefer. How fun this would be, I dunno tbh… If I have to switch these things for different farming routes constantly it would become tedious at some point.
If you somehow commit to your Talisman and you can’t change it further during the game on that character then this has flaws too since Seasonal players would equip one at some point in mid Season, and NS will wait to get this with perfect rolls for what they need it.
There isn’t an optimal way to include charms. The closest to a semi-good mechanic is the standard PoE jewels with predefined slots at skill tree, but this isn’t something very interesting too since it again boils down to easy decisions.
Well since this topic came out in the open I’d state an idea I had for a while now…
Charms be a Druid-only thing… Most of charms’ effects could be to gain extra bonuses based upon weather surroundings, or gain control over the weather/surroundings more often. Or simply upgrade a set of talents/passives (with extra points past max level) for the class, but also sometimes CC/resistance upgrade too
Charms would be made/crafted from salvaged secondary armor pieces (most often cloth) and salvaged gems in the form of magical dust
In fact would like the devs experiment quite a bit with the idea of salvaging gems, where other classes can use them for different purpose, for example:
Barb can salvage rings & amulets & gems to create socketable jewels for weaponry and armor
Sorc can not only salvage gems but also combine them into more powerful crystals with secondary effects. Salvaged gems for the Sorc can be used as a Tome creation tool (either temporary bonus or equipable as a custom-made off-hand with elemental but not necessarily Sorc-only abilities)
Druid can salvage gems and armor pieces (secondary armor pieces most often) in order to create charms. Charms would increase Druid’s talent effectiveness, or effectiveness/synergy over environment, or simply CC/elemental defensive/offensive tools (resistances & CC increase/reduce type affixes)
Assassin/Hunter class could use salvaged gems & weapons to create traps
e.t.c.
Think it’s a better idea overall and has a nice way to give an extra different feeling/uniqueness to each class… Must admit kinda like that idea tbh, reason why it feels still doable is cause we haven’t been introduced to basic gem types yet so I kinda hope they experiment a bit more with these and show us something new/different in the next Q update or somewhat soon
I don’t know where it was, but they said something like “magic find won’t compete with power if we include it”.
Making these a class-specific item is interesting in theory since the effect can be really small (something you won’t bother change often) but still gameplay changing as with the weather mechanic you suggested.
(not that I am against reusing names for new systems, like with runes. But this just seems like a really bad and pointless system)
Anyway, my favorite charm system currently:
A small charm inventory, can hold maybe 4-6 charms.
Charms are fragile, and will shatter after an hour or two. If you die, they shatter instantly. So they would be something you are always looking to replace with new charms. And never something you can rely on for your build. Just some additional bonuses. Even better if they can make you change up your playstyle a little as you replace them. Like for an hour you might suddenly have 95% fire resist (instead of your normal ~75%), throwing yourself fearlessly into fire enemies.
An hour later, you might have some completely different bonuses. Making it something in between gear bonuses and Shrines/pylons. With the additional benefit of acting like a small death penalty.
I really don’t think that is the right approach. The ROOT of the issue (in Diablo 2) was certain classes did not have to sacrifice power to obtain magic find. There was no issue with magic find competing in power spots… the issue stemmed from some classes being gear dependent and others not being and that was a problem by itself. Once that is addressed then there is really no reason to NOT have magic find compete with power affixes. If you don’t sacrifice power for magic find then there is really no point in magic find as far as I am concerned.
Well, they would be smaller bonuses. Like the example of getting 20% increased max fire resist combined, from your charms.
That said, I do like shrines from D2, even D3. Kinda feels like they need to be in a Diablo game in some form.
I dont like pylons, they are too powerful, and too important for Diablo 3s endgame. A temporary buff should never be carrying you.
As I’ve said in previous ocasions, charms main selling point is also its main issue. They’re special because of not having a slot, but instead they take room from your inventory, which is also an issue.
Regarding the talisman or whatever is its name, as you’ve mentioned, I find it just an extension of more slots with just one stat linked to them. I don’t think it’s especially exciting, however I also wouldn’t oppose to something like that being introduced.
Now, purely focusing on MF, I believe that its removal, and now relying just on “raise the difficulty” was a step backwards, I’ve found it less fun, needless to talk about the evil consequences of that in conjunction with the powercreep. Old school MF had the advantage of being an independent vector of progression, which resulted in no side-effects.
Magic Find can be included, but it has to be done right. The way you did in D2 and early D3 by carrying around gear and swapping it out is horrible and shouldn’t happen again.
But if they put a method to add MF to your gear via an endgame crafting system or something similar, then it would be fine.
Did you read what I said? There is reasons why some character classes were efficient with magic find and others were not. If you can address those reasons - which should be addressed for their own sake - then there isn’t this issue. Its fine or even great to trade power for magic find and to balance those for maximum treasure finding efficency. If you can play build X (just any given build) with or without magic find… thats great thats what you want. If you can only play a one or two classes with magic find plus a handful of other specific builds then yeah that is a problem. Its not a problem with magic find though. Its a problem from something else.
