Wolcen has that. The more you use it, the stronger it gets. It’s like your toon’s magical aptitude is increasing through long-term use, and then you reach a point where you can evolve the skill drastically by pumping points into it and choose from several different “nodes”.
Point is, none wants to waste points
So there are either synergies or everything is endgame usable (which I prefer)
1 Like
As someone who pvped a bit as a bone Necromancer, I have to disagree with the sentiment that teeth was worthless. Teeth was good at getting rid of opponents summons (Druid and Summon Necros) and also for wearing down opponents with low life (like most bow amazons).
That said:
Having skills able to morph and/or upgrade into alternative versions would be interesting.
2 Likes
I want to present: crazy tree 
Every skill is a level 1 pick
2 Likes
Crazy is an apt description for a tree like that.
“Crappy” is an even more apt description for that tree. Someone petition the council to cut it down.
Watch your attitude o:
1 Like
Because it is. Especially if skills are somewhat limited. Even more so if you’re forced to spend skill points on those skills and then abandon them later. Even if the skill points spent have some small future benefit, it still feels bad.
Trading “general fire spell” for “more powerful generic fire spell” isn’t interesting at all. I’d rather start with Fireball and be able to diversify it, then get Meteor later and be able to diversify THAT if I want to.
More variety is better as long as the spells have their own identity.
Go play D&D if you like it so much. Basically everyone else recognizes the issue with not scaling skills to be viable end-game… esp. when you put twenty points in it. These two games are not even remotely similar… I don’t know why you are trying to force mechanics from one into the other. You can name a hundred games you like better - just go play them.
1 Like
I dont think a tier based magical progression system is defensible in an A-RPG tbh.
It can work in D&D and similar, where you have multiple spell ranks, where tier 1 can be cast more often than tier 2 etc. Or where muti-classes offers a real cost/benefit to reaching higher spell tiers.
But a system where you are out-phasing the lower tiers. Well, that is just bad game design.
And even in D&D, it kinda is that bad game design, where you end up picking lower tier spells that are not affected as badly by the scaling (picking CC or buffs instead of dmg skills as an example).
Indeed.
It is perfectly fine that you have to invest into fireball, to make it really strong in end-game, obviously.
Beautiful is a better description tbh 
Though the tree is a bit too linear for my taste.
Web 
1 Like
I’m fine with either a tree or a web. Although I’d rather it doesn’t pack everything on the screen, all that would do is overwhelm some players. Instead, they could all the nodes except for the base skills (and maybe talents) invisible to players. However when you click on a skill to learn or level it, you then can see and have access to it’s support nodes in which it would zoom in and show the skill and it’s support nodes that you could customize.
So using the skill tree as an example, if I was a newly made sorceress character, I would only be able to see the base skills and the talents in my skill tree. However when I click on let’s say fire ball, then instead of leveling fireball, the screen would zoom in on fire ball and reveal it’s support nodes to me. Once I finish plotting points in the skill and unlocking some of it’s support nodes and exiting the Fire ball section, the support nodes would go back to being invisible, but the unlocked paths would still be visible; so in short you wouldn’t see the icons of the skill upgrade nodes, but you could still see the line that connects them to one another.
Then again, it simply may be better to make an option settings regarding it, where players could choose to see everything at once, or hide some of it unless they choose to level it.
Sure, but the point of a web would be that one node can support multiple skills, from all over the web.
Otherwise it might as well just be individual skill trees for each skill (which is also a great solution), and then yeah, no need to show them all at once.
1 Like
No arguments here on that.
well
it is an alteration of the current D4 tree
i didnt have a completely free hand
It’s good imo. Just also a tad overwhelming imo.
As much as I believe that D2 is the best game ever, I think that it has many flaws, and this one you’re bringing is something that could be heavily improved.
Given that, beyond being a prereq for other skills, each D2 skill has progression itself, I believe that they all should have a purpose on endgame.
This is one of those things that I feel made Grim Dawn so appealing. You can take most offensive skills (or even just basic attacks) and make an endgame build based around them. Love the Magic Missile equivalent? It’s there. Love Meteors? Do it. Love red beam of death? Sure, why not.
Granted, not everything can do quite the same level in the Crucible or beat all the secret bosses, but I don’t think that’s necessary either.
Diablo 4 needs that. It’s something that really helps out the replayability of a game.
2 Likes
You are not wasting. They serve as “buffs”…
They are good buffs in that case.
Well, Gothic 1/2 are considered ARPG’s. Skyrim too. But instead of circel 1/2/3+, you have > Novice, Apprentice, Adept, Expert an Master. Your master of destruction magic will not be casting novice skills very often. Both games uses manas instead of Vancian style magic or uses/rest aka “charges”
But on GD, you unlock upgrades which changes the skill mechanic and visual wise . A high level magic missile looks and acts differently than a low level one.
I certainly wouldn’t consider either of those A-RPGs.
Nor would I consider Skyrim to have a good magic system (or combat system in general).
Which is fine?
Seems to be what people say they want.