D4 impressions [conclusions, and perhaps discussion]

General Discussion
1

Hi everyone, this is my not first but probably “well-summarized” impression/s from the D4 panel of Blizzconline 2021… But as always, feel free to comment stuff on your own :slight_smile:

First of all a brief summary of the “what”

In short, 2 major things were revealed:

  • New class (Rogue)
  • PvP system introduction & implementation details

The class looks AMAZING, wayy cooler than I thought, and also a bit more bold… The class may look straightforward from the skills and specializations part BUT the Imbue system (ability to swap damage type from Frost to Poison to Shadow, semi/regularly or even on the fly ? :thinking: ) tells us quite a bit more

The PvP system also sounded straightforward (go into a zone, try get a very good item, won’t be able to “identify” it until you’ve won the “tournament” from all nearby challengers :D), BUT it also tells us A LOT more regarding the system overall

The “therefore” part (i.e. hypothetical conclusions)

  1. If the Rogue has a Shadow as damage type, it’s perfectly logical to assume that type of damage (and resistances) will exist in general in D4… Meaning mobs, but also probably/maybe some previous classes may get a few abilities (or alterations) to dish out shadow damage (or at least defend from it) also
  1. The “early” roll-out of PvP just screams confidence in balance. Meaning the itemisation, the character-attributes, and the skills REALLY DO give them the ability and confidence to roll out with the PvP as early as they did (before announcing things like Gems, sockets, crafting, e.t.c.)

Which leads to the following conclusion/hypothesis some of us had the previous period which is:

2a. ATK is NOT damage output, it’s just a modifier/multiplier instead. That being said I think the most-likely formula for damage output is probably this one: Damage-per-hit = Skill-base * ATK * (1 + DamageAmp) / TargetDEF * ( 1 + TargetRes)

Which would (probably) lead to consequence of the type:

Weapons will have a large impact but not coma super significant one, if you have 25% more ATK cause of better weapon [10k instead of 7.5k ATK modifier], you’ll do 25% more damage but NOT 2500 per hit more…

2b. It’s also HIGHLY LIKELY that the greater part from the impact/damage output will come from the skill-level itself (at least in the late game down the line overall, chances are that 2 or 3 skill levels will make a greater difference between skill baseline as opposed to ATK increase factor of amplification)

2c. Second part is that considering this system is super EASY and straightforward (no % to hit for ex. or no recovery or even stagger/stamina system, nothing like that), it’s highly likely that most of the “combat juice” will come out from hit-effects, skill-synergies from “states” from the attacker/defender, but ALSO consumables…

So, for ex: if your Meteor does 500 damage, and your ATK is super high (10k) and TargetDEF is 7.5k you’ll do just 625 damage (give or take), BUT if you first reduce the resistances or put your target in a state which you can exploit (vulnerable, overpowered, cc-ed, whatever) then your damage-output will be most-likely (unless countered) SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER (remember, there was a legendary affix which can roll on multiple items that did a ~40% more damage to vulnerable targets by a Meteor)

In that particular case, NOW we’re talking about a “sudden” impact of perhaps 2k dps per hit/cast as opposed to just a 625 per hit lol

Which also means, that not gear (at least not as much in general) but rather things like a range of consumables (well-timed) or well-timed reactionary abilities will do most of the “job” (for ex. consuming an immune to DoT for few seconds, or prevent incoming CC in next second or whatever having higher impact than having 2k or 3k more DEF/Armor)

  1. Last class will most-certainly ALSO use Shadow damage as a resource (there’s no way or very little chance that only one class has a complete, or almost-complete dominance over a damage-type output), I mean

Barb: Physical, Fire, Poison, (Earth ?)
Druid: Fire, Lightning, Earth, (Poison ?)
Sorc: Fire, Lightning, Frost, (Physical ?)
Rogue: Physical, Frost, Poison, Shadow

Which would lead to some type of narrow-down to last-class being some Dark-magic Priest or Heretic of some sorts (Dark Inquisitor ?), or maybe even an Alchemist of some sorts (which also excites me in thought tbh, though maybe overthinking things a bit too much ATM), BUT remember:

A bit "extra" part of thought

We haven’t seen Gems or Sockets (other than the trigger-system runes) AT ALL, so there’s a chance that the Gems-as-a-socket becomes a Class-specific thing (somewhat) and the “general/shared” socketing system becomes a lot scarcer or more specific/situational :thinking: [So, Alchemist inc. everyone :smiley: :P, jk but hope]

Either way, the conclusion/hypothesis is that

the last class will ALSO use shadow as magic type (dark magic) in it’s arsenal

Post your thoughts… :slight_smile:

2 Likes
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frost, poison and shadow imbue are 3 separate skills that you have to place in your skillbar and if you are having them all in your skillbar you are able to use them all in the same battle but not more than 1 at a time

3

Nah, I think it’s a “swap” thing that rotates between 3 states and that’s it…, like an “extra” button that’s not part of the 6 on the skillbar…

But yeah before each skill you use you’d probably want to check which mode/imbue is currently selected to do the desired effect of the skill you’re about to use [and probably the imbue swap has some CD like at least 3 sec so the opponent can react timely as opposed to being reigned by 3 damage types from one same skill at the same time overall] :slight_smile:

4

that was not an assumption
i know that^^

the skill icons with the crossed weapons are the imbue skills and also the devs talked about it

1 Like
5

huh ?, that feels like very weird/bad implementation tbh, but whatever, perhaps no imbue (could imagine imbued abilities cost more :P) is an option :thinking: :slight_smile:

6

oh, you dont have to use any of them
but i guess that most builds would probably focus on at least one of them since they are enhancing all of your attacks
but tbh, looking at the time and cooldown, i dont get why they arent just toggle skills

7

So you only imbue skills with another dmg type for a short moment?
And taking up 1 of 6 skill slots. Similar with the shadow realm. This thing sounds really bad honestly. When 6 skill slots is already too few.
A shadow realm rogue with imbue will have 4 skill slots left?

8

shadow realm is just a skill that lets you enter a certain state for a short time
weapon imbue is a buff that…basically has the cooldown up again after running out so…classic pointless piano gameplay…

9

Probably cause too much power would reside into one specific skill that would be dumb idea not to use :smiley:

Which also leads to the following question: do these act like Masteries ?, i.e. each with it’s own level and power, like level 1 frost imbue = add 5 frost damage to arrows and melee attacks, lvl 2 = 8, lvl3 = 11, lvl4 = 14, and so on… Most likely the case cause that would address/take-care of the longevity of the class but then probably take a lot of power from it (i.e. have to go one damage type and one damage type most of the time) also…

10

well i hope that you can do something with your skills rather than just equipping them…but they are like completely not certain about their skilltrees yet

11

Why do Blizzard always seem like 1 step forward, 2 backward :smiley:

“Rogue has so many more options due to their class mechanism! Like, you can now have 4 skills instead of 6!”

12

Yep, think the Imbue-choice should be a separate button outside of the skill-bar tbh, and maybe not allow us tech all the 3 at the same time (i.e. each imbue type have it’s own power level) and the downside of having one of these active all the time being mana depletion or sth like that overall…

13

An imbued skill can just have an increased resource cost.

Shadow realm should also be a separate button though. It is not a trade-off with another skill. It is a trade-off with the combo points and the exploit weakness thing.

14

i wouldnt say that
a buff is a buff
just not necessary to not make it a toggle buff
however

that was kinda oblivions idea to have it as a class system and choose which elements your skills are using before entering combat
well, we got random enemy targeting and combo points now

15

shadow realm is just a normal kinda “super skill” like the sorc lightning form kinda thing

16

I meant leveling-wise, each have a separate power level of it’s own (shadow lvl6, frost lvl4, poison lvl11 or so), but yeah making it a part of the skill-tree/skill-system kinda takes away from the class-specific feature and making it more a skill, true :slight_smile:

P.S., talking about “super skills”, take the shard of hatred, purify it and conduit the hell out of 5 portals :smiley:

17

i guess purifying will take long enough to not let you ult-cheese it

18

Well, didn’t want to derail the topic but… :man_shrugging: :stuck_out_tongue:

I actually think should be on the shorter side of things cause if it’s really long then only groups and guilds (and not individuals) will be able to… :thinking:, remains to be seen though :slight_smile:

19

Increased mana cost on imbued skills is not needed, but if you want to make it a viable choice to not imbue your skills, there kinda has to be a downside to using it?

As for Shadow realm it needs to be a lot stronger than Combo points and exploit weakness, since it comes with an additional cost of losing a skill button.
Seems like a completely senseless decision.

20

shadow realm is not a class spezification
its just an “ultimate” skill