I don’t know how the difficulty will be implemented in Diablo 4, but I don’t want to see any more T1 to T1000 difficulty like on Diablo 3. It would throw the game off balance absurdly in terms of exp, gold and loot wins.
I think the inferno difficulty of D3 vanilla D3 brought a real interesting challenge. But as we know, this difficulty level was unbalanced because of AH, items 61-63 only found in inferno (which would complicate the progression), and each act became just a gear check.
I would like a similar difficulty to be implemented in D4. I’m not asking for the return of the Enrage timer or the invulnerable Minions. This difficulty should not be extremely hard, nor should it give undue advantage to players who venture into it. In any case, it should bring more elements of challenge than a simple increase in monster life and damage.
How to increased difficulty w/o increasing monster life and damage?
Giving each monster new abilities?
“Inferno”, imo, is just being renamed to T16 these days. Same stuff pretty much.
no matter what difficulties there are, people will find exploits to overcome them. Inferno times - critmass sorc build aka “piano”, torment times - cyclonestrike-ancientspear combo (cyclone is the most cheating and gameplay ruining ability in ROS). Spear is back in D4 from what we see, people will find smth to replace cyclone, hit recovery doesn’t exists still, so we will get that same ugly gameplay in D4. This is why people keep saying again and again that D4 is not D4, but D3 ver2.
I didn’t say that increasing the difficulty should not increase the life and damage of the monsters. I said that I don’t want the increase in difficulty to be just that.
Shadout brought you part of the answer. But yes, that would be the idea. From my point of view, there are different possible approaches:
That the elites acquire new affixes not available in the lower difficulties
That monsters learn new skills. For example that Fallen shaman can make Firewalls or cast 3 fireball. Another example, that the Cannibal family, which was presented in February, can devour the corpse of their congenerates, which heals them and makes them stronger. Or that the attacks of the Cannibal family heal them if you bleed. Or that Cannibal family acquire Barbarian skills like the Shouts or Wrath of Berserker. Another example, that assassin-like enemies become invisible (like Starcraft’s Ghost) before their first attack that reveals them.
I don’t know if this is a good idea, but consider having the elite acquire a fifth affix.
In addition to improving the monsters, we can consider new death traps related to the environment. You can even consider traps such as those of the Assassin of diablo 2 that can be triggered when you approach it. This would encourage to be more careful.
I don’t remember that the Inferno brought 13888770% Health, 64725% Damage, 7000% extra gold bonus, 17000% extra XP bonus. But if you say it, it must be true.
I admit that it is possible. But the risk of seeing imba builds that run on everything exists in all ARPGs, not just Diablo 3 (and I guess it must have existed on Diablo 2).
It’s a little too early to know if that will be the case. It all depends on how the game will be tested during Beta, and whether we’ll be able to detect those cheated builds for fixes them before the game is released.
I’d like a complete revamp on the not only “difficulty” but rather/also the “main damage source” mechanics from previous games, and by “main damage source” I mean of this:
In D2 diff (and monster affixes with it) was too cheesy, the “damage pie” was all one hard-hitter ability (your “build”) accompanied with some secondary ability or trap/curse on hell difficulty where your “chosen” ability was hard countered completely
In D3 it was all about generator/spender cycles and Crit or bust (i.e. die trying). To make matters worse they completely revamped ranged classes around endless kiting and melee classes around (even when completely surrounded) endless sustain
That being said I’d like to see them attempt things like “mana return” potions (as opposed to mana potion), i.e. your current used ability returns mana (additional if already have mana drain) per hit for X hits, these wouldn’t be so easy, it’s a step in the right direction IMO if hard-hitters have a reduced rate or non-stacking whilest weak attacks and melee would stack (in addition could go builds on items where melee hits drain extra mana per hit). In order for this “more risky than usual” mechanic to work think there should be a plethora of defensive resources i.e. potions of haste, stone-skin, invisibility, cleanse, and so on (i.e. NOT just healing). It would be much more interesting if you time your defensive potions right so you get the maximum mana-drain in direct fights whilest minimizing damage taken for a certain time while doing it… Additionally there could be some bits of the “doom ethernal” mechanic where mobs executed by melee have a chance to drop extra globe or defensive potion for further usage/s
THAT would make the fights more “evened out”, as for monster difficulties and difficulty in general, talked about many times tbh, the difficulties should resemble 90s “adventure” games (and by adventure I mean things like pre rpg, think of Commando for ex. or Crusader maybe) where the experience would be completely different based upon difficulty chosen (and the rewards dropped also differed slightly)
Bottom line is, we live in a 21st century ffs, AI algorhythms were a thing since the 90s, make sure there’s some “smarter AI”, some mobs join fights if already fighting, some mobs patrolling, some mobs “sounding alarm” for reinforcements, some mobs go back to heal and start fighting again, some mobs be good/better at direct fights and simply maneouver/kite/dodge hits, some might even go berserk and total attack mode as long as they live but as long as knowing they’re not alone and there’s someone else supporting from nearby
The “extra ability” is an interesting concept but is probably a “hardest only” difficulty sort of thing, along with some spell/physical type resistances
In addition, here’s a table I’ve designed quite awhile ago (in fact even this thread has been requoted from before) where the “starting stat differentials” on different difficulties could be without going either of the previous routes (nor cheesyness in late-game hard-counter RPS-style combat like in D2, nor crazy HP/damage numbers in D3), i.e. talked about this same topic before and IMO here’s a nice/dynamic/applicable idea worth a try:
A CAP difficulty should exist in D4, same as its in D2 or PoE.
But it doesn’t mean you will clear the CAP difficulty just like that. You can still die based on the MOBS affixes and such.
I HATE how the difficulty is currently is in D3. Is not based on the mobs affixes or your skills ( as a player too ). Nope, we are literally blocked because we are items CAPPED. Problem is, there are not better items to farm for, unless they give us a “Season Buff”, which is pathetic.
Also , NEVER bring back the “rift fishing” in ANY Diablo games. #Neveragain .
Actually I would prefer the top tier difficulty to be extremely hard, nearly impossible to complete even with good geared and optimized characters, and still very difficult for godly geared characters. The result of being able to hang at this difficulty would be the highest probability of reward. The big determining factor will be knowledge the maps, the abilities/patterns of the monsters your are engaging and of course the abilities of your character.
The option of extreme difficulty keeps the replayability of the game interesting.
I would be perfectly fire with 7 to 10 different Difficulty Levels, that are on a Slider like in D3, that you can adjust, while enemies are scaling with your level.
The last one or two difficulties might be so hard, that not even most players with high end gear play on them.
And they should not just increase enemies life and damage (in fact, I would say that enemies life and damage should start to stagnate at a certain difficulty), but also do things like these:
increased enemy density
more elites spawn
elites have more powers
elites have new powers
enemies have increased movement speed
enemies have increased CC resistance
(some) enemies maybe have a new AI that causes them to behave differently
more (and new) environmental traps/hazards
things like Molten Explosions trigger faster
more stagger gets applied on you (if there is something like a stagger mechanic that microstuns your character when enough stagger has accumulated)
etc
I definitely would prefer a Slider over a ladder like difficulty system like in D2 or D3 classic.
Too many difficulty tiers gives you more of an ability to zero in on your optimal kill speed to reward ratio…
The difficulty rankings must be kept somewhere between 4 and 6 tiers total while maintaining a high difficulty curve even just going up one tier. For example, if you are able to easily roll through tier 2 difficulty, you should be able to start tier 3 difficulty, carefully and slowly progress through with a significant threat of dying.
You should either not be given access to or have an impossibly low chance (think Zod rune chances) to get items in for example tier 1-2 difficulty that allow you skip 3-4 and steamroll tier 5-6 difficulty. That’s one of the big problems with Diablo 3, especially with Haedrig’s Gifts, it gives you access to gear that catapults you from lower tier difficulties straight up to the higher difficulties.
Assuming that this comment was directed at me and my previous post:
The solutions are simple solutions to that:
make certain items, achievements, cosmetics, etc only available in higher difficulties
let higher difficulties give you much more gold, XP, rewards, etc than lower difficulties, which accounts for the lower killing speed
Furthermore, 10 different Difficulty Settings is still a reasonable amount. That is basically Normal, Hard, Expert, Master and T1-T6.
I agree with the first part that lower difficulties (on a slider) should not give you access to high level items.
What I disagree with is the idea that High End Items should give you the ability to steamroll through the highest difficulty. I think there should be difficulties that are even a challenge (to various degrees, depending on the difficulty) for buids and chars that are fully equipped with High End Items.
Taking your example Dificulty 6 (D6) being the highest and then endgame gear lets you steamroll through it, then there also should be D7, D8 and D9 (and then why not D10 as well).
D6 would be what fully equipped endgame chars steamroll through, once they have all the High End Items.
D7 would be a slight-decent challenge for fully equipped endgame chars.
D8 would be challenge for fully equipped endgame chars.
D9 would be very challenging for fully equipped endgame chars.
D10 would just be insane even for fully equipped endgame chars.
I feel like this is the ultimate conundrum for a loot driven game.
We kill monsters to get loot to kill stronger monsters to get better loot. Where does it end?
If there’s some ultimate difficulty that’s almost impossible to beat, does it drop loot that makes it possible to beat? Or is it just there for accolades?
How many other difficulties should be in between that? How long should it take to get the gear to do so?
I think there should be less difficulties. Because it’s easier to make non stat based changes (AI, abilities, etc.) when there’s fewer difficulties.
Like we’ve seen with D3, 150 GR difficulties are all just linear or % based stat growth. Same thing with the Torment difficulties.
I kind of want a last boss challenge that gives 0 loot. Because it gives a target that’s really hard to beat but doesn’t give loot to then beat it easier to get more of the same loot to do nothing.
Keep in mind you’d need mostly a complete set of these items farmed at ridiculously low percentage chances to be able to skip difficulties, which would be possible yes, but it’d take nearly an eternity to get a good set of them. I’m not saying finding a single high tier item at a low tier is going to turn you into a godly char.
I guess I should have been more specific about that.
The problem with an extremely hard difficulty is that players will quickly ask to nerf it. By the way, what do you call an almost impossible difficulty ? A difficulty where the smallest fallen you one-shot ? a gear check ? I know that explaining the notion of difficulty is complicated, since each player has his or her own opinion on the matter. I wish I knew yours.
7 different difficulties seem too much, 4-5 would suit me personally.
For players who want to play in groups, joining parties where there are too many different difficulties brings back the current D3 situation. The first difficulties will be filled mostly by beginners, the intermediate difficulties will be almost empty and the last difficulties will be monopolized by advanced players.
The last 2-3 Difficulties would be primarily for fully equipped Endgame Chars with High End Gear, who are looking for a challenge (to which degree they themself can decide).
In the highest difficulty, I want the threat of death to worry me while wearing close to the best gear possible. I want the determining factor between living and dying to be mostly based on my reflexes, skills and knowledge of the game and not simply because I’m wearing godly gear from some build found online while holding a few keys and a mouse button down. That’s the best I can offer on a description of difficulty.
