[D4 Feedback] Do not increase the Character Level Cap with new Expansions

I know that D4 is not even out yet and that it is too early to speculate about expansions, but I wanna talk about something that potentially has a detrimental effect on the game.

If the game will have expansions, which it likely will have, do not increase the maximum character level with each new expansion.

The primary reason for that is that it makes the items we have accumulated over the past expansion become useless.

But this can simply be counteracted by having seasons in the game from the beginning and put a lot of focus on them from the beginning to incentivize players to start over again.

Then you do not need to incentivize players to return to the game by making their old items useless via increasing the level cap, because they already have the incentive to come back and experience the new content with each new season and each new expansion that comes out.

And new skills can simply be put on the skill tree in their appropriate category, so there is no need to gate new skills that come with new expansions behind a higher skill level.

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Now, what makes me think that Blizzard is planing on increasing the character level with each upcoming expansion?

There are a few indicators:

  • the current level cap is 40, which is the lowest it has ever been in any Diablo game (lower than even in D1 and D3).
  • the level cap in D3 was increased from 60 to 70 when Reaper of Souls came out
  • World of Warcraft has always increased the level cap with each new expansion, so much so that the level cap went from 60 in classic, to 120 in the latest expansion (yes, it will be lowered in the new expansion down to 60, but likely will be increased to 70 again in the expansion after Shadowlands)
  • The Blizzard that made D2 (which did not increase the level cap when Lord of Destruction came out) is no longer

All of that considered, especially since the current level cap is really, really low, I think it is fair to say that it looks like Blizzard is intending to increase the level cap with each upcoming expansion, which will make (probably most) of the items we farmed previously useless.

This might work in World of Warcraft, but Diablo is a different kind of game, that attracts different types of players that enjoy the game for different reasons than for why people enjoy WoW.

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Now, this post here is considered feedback, and if it is indeed the intent of the devs to increase the level cap with each expansion, then I would say “Stop right there! Don’t even go into that direction.” It will just piss people off if their gear gets useless with each new expansion, and even more so when they know that their gear will be useless anyway once the next expansion comes.

If it really has to be and you need to retroactively change items for whatever reasons, find other ways to do so instead of persistent level cap increases, which would harm all items and not just a few.

Let the level cap be 80 or 100 or somewhere around that (at least not 40) and keep it that way with each expansion.

Keep players interested with new content, new items, new expansions, events, new seasons, but don’t make them feel like their past efforts have been for nothing by making their loot useless via regular character level cap increases.

27 Likes

I gave you a like as I also think this is a detriment to the game. Somewhere around 100 to 150 would be my wish.

But here is why they are going with 40 - development schedule… 40 is a compromise since it will take another 2 years to flesh out all of Sanctuary, to support a higher level cap. (This is added to the development time now)

The fastest path to release the game is 40 max and expansions increasing the playable areas and the level cap.

I don’t like this formula but it’s my opinion as to why level cap of 40.

I don’t think there is a problem with having played through the campaign and not have reached max level.

Even if you had to play through the campaign 3 times to reach max level it would not really be a problem. You also can level up in the content that come after the campaign. There is not problem with it. At least it would by far not as problematic as constantly increasing the level cap.

6 Likes

Oh yes they will.

40 is far too low as it is.

4 Likes

They can set it to 100 from the beginning.

4 Likes

Honestly neither idea presented here thrills me much.

I don’t like the idea that they just hit the reset button every 2 years like they do in WoW, but I’m also not feeling good about the idea that the game will be designed around 3 month cycles of starting over again and again and again and again.

Maybe if they stretched seasons out to last longer, but I prefer to actually focus on a handful of characters rather than throwing them away every X months.

8 Likes

Agreed.
Current season fetish in A-RPGs is bad tbh.
At minimum, seasons should last 6+ months.
Give people time to make characters, level them, gear them up, create “alts” etc. Which obviously should take more than 20 hours. Not this speed run nightmare D3 (and PoE for that matter) has turned into.
It is just fine too, to have patches within seasons.

I’m fine with adding new levels in expansions. If done right, that does not necessarily mean your old items should become useless. Just dont scale up items much (if at all) with the additional levels.
Besides, other reasons can be added for replacing gear, like new enchantment systems etc. that only works with gear found in the expansion.

The new level cap should serve a purpose though.
Adding additional skill points does not make much sense in a Diablo expansion, so at minimum Blizzard need to ask themselves what the point is.
In WoW, a gear/power reset is basically required for each expansion. But in Diablo, if they are moving along with seasons, no matter their length, that is not relevant here either.

3 Likes

That’s fine with me. My main point is that 40 is far too low, so if they stick with that, expansions will HAVE TO increase it.

I had the idea that there could be seasons of different length running parallel to each other, especially since different people prefer different lengths.

There could be at least three different seasons of different lengths:

  • 1 month
  • 6 months
  • and then either 2 months or 3 months (or both, but then there already would be four different seasons)

People who play the the 1/2/3 month long seasons would obviously not be able to do all the content that the players of the 6 month long season would be able to do (maybe unless they are super fast pro-players who play daily, dunno), but that is not necessarily a problem, because many people just wanna reach certain milestones, while others wanna fully equip their builds with the best kinds of items and then compete with the other top players.

That way everyone could do what they prefer.

1 Like

So you want them to release expansions but make sure the loot you already have isn’t outclassed by new items.

This in a loot-farming game.

5 Likes

Yes, and your point is?

If they release a new expansion, you still had to farm the new items that came with the new expansion.

And the new items should not be stronger than the old ones, but rather be on the same powerlevel, to give you more viable items for your build/s.

4 Likes

I just find it amazing how people don’t want to hunt for new loot in a loot-hunting game.

If the new equipment isn’t better than what you already have, then it’s pointless.

4 Likes

I think you’re all over thinking it. You’re playing a dungeon grinding, loot hunting game, and complaining that they might increase a level cap, which would create the need to farm more items? I don’t see the problem when you’re already farming?

I loved D2, so much so, that I needed to go to therapy to stop playing it. Times have changed and so did the franchise, to a much quicker, more user friendly, fluid gameplay. Whether we want to agree or disagree with any of the D4 teasers they post for us to see, one thing is 100% certain. The genre and what we know, or use to love, will be obsolete and it will have evolved yet again to something else new and exciting. The current potential of Diablo IV is huge, and I feel trying to convince the devs to stick to D2, D3 or POE elements is a huge problem.

1 Like

Why shouldn’t they want to hunt for new items? Especially if the focus is on seasons rather than non-seasonal.

Furthermore, you will not just be handed these new items when a new expansion comes out, but you still have to farm them.

But they are going to start new character anyway (or rebirth them) with each new season, so they have to start from 0 anyway.

If you have several Best-in-Slot items for a build, then you have various options on what you want to to equip.

The problem is not farming new items, the problem is making the ones you already have useless.

The reverse would also be problematic (tell them to not stick to things that worked in D2 and D3), especially if these things worked well.

1 Like

Yes and no. If it is merely a reset where you want to go out and find the exact same items you already had, just with a +10 lvl, then it is fairly pointless.
Borderlands 3 has done that with each of its small DLC packs 3 times in a year, and it feels quite silly.

When you add better gear in an expansion, at least make it new and different in some way (like adding enchantments, new affixes etc.)., so the new gear you want to get is not identical to the old gear.

I certainly think an expansion should make it so that you want to go out and hunt new gear. But the way to do that is not to introduce “Staff of meteor apocalypse +1.01”. Actually add new and exciting stuff instead.
(besides, if there is a new season with a new expansion, the whole point is moot)
A-RPGs are threadmills, sure, but at least make a tiny bit of effort to hide the threadmill.

That is not even remotely certain tbh.

1 Like

Number of levels means nothing. Progression means everything. In DND every single level changes things a lot, while every D3 paragon level changes nothing.

This has been happening in Blizzard games since day 1, why would it be a problem now? If they don’t create new items that make old items stale, then the hunt becomes boring.

Speaking of the hunt, that’s the only thing I wish they would bring to D4. Make drops rare again

They don’t create new items in D2 for years, but the hunt is never boring there, actually it is the only thing that keeps people playing still.

3 Likes

Like 1% of D2’s playerbase still plays the game regularly.

If can work fine, if from day one of development, they plan on a specific max level, and design everything around that number. Even if we don’t reach that number for 5 years, and 3 expansions.

If 200 is going to be max, plan the games power structure based on that. So for release say 80 is max, then the expansions can be released with 40 levels each, so 81-120, 121-160, 161-200, but it all flows together, without any huge spikes in power between expansions.

This way you don’t go from god mode at 80, to dog mode at 81, like so many other games. Actually, if you are close to BiS with all gear, that gear will still be relevant for 10-15 levels, and you just naturally accumulate better gear as you work to new max level.