[D4] character specific system for the hunter/rogue

General Discussion
1

So I am simply just proceeding on the assumption that one of the remaining characters will be a ranged character but probably not only that but a hybrid that might be split also into 3 different disciplines which might be ranged/assassination/traps
That would cover as many gameplay styles as possible in a very fitting, authentic way

So I am trying to find a character specific system (like the arsenal or the enhance system) that fits to this type of character and all aspects of it, not just ranged combat

I am thinking of something like
“Headhunting”
The player can always mark a single desired enemy at a time and gain certain boni when fighting them like: bonus damage when unseen, stacking damage bonus for consecutive attacking, temporary stat boni for killing the target, (you come up with more ideas)
Obviously this is a very specific system that is mainly designed for single boss enemies and not so much for groups
But I think that most of us agreed on that not every class has to be able to do the same thing and be equally capable in all areas
A hunter class is generally known for assassinating single targets very effectively so this system could support the class fantasy and also give it an edge for killing bosses

so, to those who are new, the topic kinda changed and the system we are currently talking about, provided by @oblivion is the coating system that lets the hunter coat their arrows, blades and traps in different substances like poisons and explosive powder to enhance their attacks

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2

Sort of like Quinn from LoL, occasionally an enemy will get randomly marked, and hitting that enemy with a basic attack first does extra damage, then grants an attackspeed bonus.

Quite okay as a system, makes you aware of potential “marked” targets.

3

I know quin :smiley:
A bit more specialized than her tho :stuck_out_tongue:

4

I know, but just as a general playstyle, then maybe you can spec into what kind of bonus you recieve, does it react to certain enemies (like undead, beasts or demons) etc etc.

5

yea, if it doesnt break the mold in terms of complexity, you might also be able to spec into it :slight_smile:

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6

As long as it is an earth based Ranger type class and not some type of DH in high heels and spandex again.

  • If the class could look similar to the NPC hunter that is already in the game that would be a plus.

  • If they could bring back the D2 Shock Web and the Scoundrel Dirty Fighting that would work.

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7

i definitely favour the hunter from the concept art and would love to have it as a playable character although its already confirmed as a NPC

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8

When I saw the art it was like holy cow that is what I am talking about. But It was not to be.

  • Maybe we will interact with them somehow.
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9

having them as npc doesnt mean that we cant play them
it is actually more authentic that a hero in a world is part of an already existing race/tribe
you have barbs in D2, you have rogues in D2 while its a player character in 1
so can still see this character become a playable hero

10

Do we have any lore on the hunters? We know that they are in Scosglen and they appear to use horses.

11

I think class specific mechanics have to be really unique and exclusive to the respective class, changing the overall gameplay feel of that class.

Following that philosophy, if you can make the headhunting more than just speed kill on bosses, it will be a valid mechanic.

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12

This is quite true, however the opposite can also be said that just because we see a npc whose group and abilities would make for a good playable class doesn’t mean we’ll actually see them created into a playable class. For example Diablo 2 act 2 Desert Mercenaries (Spear masters capable of using auras) and Act 3 Iron Wolves mercenaries (Sorcerers who are adept at using swords instead of wands or staves) were never made into playable classes. So it wouldn’t be surprising if we had a hunter npc and an archer based class that’s completely different from the hunter npc in terms of appearance and skillset (assuming that we even see the Hunter npc fight). After all, Diablo 3’s scoundrel, Lyndon, doesn’t fight like a Demon Hunter despite them both using bows and such.

As for the proposed class mechanic for a hypothesized Class. It’s good, but too specific for single targets. In fact I would say that instead of a class system, it would make for a good talent ability. if we look at the Sorceress and Barbarian’s class systems, theirs provide a benefit that’s pretty much universal towards any number of enemies regardless if it’s a single enemy or a whole horde of them. If the Hunter’s class system mostly helps with single targets, they’ll fall behind the other classes, unless you also give them some ability to allow them to pierce enemies while still retaining the single target damage bonus or something similar.

13

yea, i mean it doesnt promise to have the hunter as an npc but it also doesnt prevent it
like people like rhykker saying “we saw the hunter as an npc so its dead as a playable character”

i know it is very specific, thats also what i mentioned myself
i just think that its not a bad thing that there is a class that might fall behind a LITTLEBIT in terms of horde killing while its having benefits on boss killing, since the boss killing is generally the more difficult and important task
especially looking at the huge world bosses

14

You all remember Evasive Fire, a Primary Skill from D3’s Demon Hunter that allows you to make a Backflip when enemies are close in front of you?

Imagine that, just with a much longer Backflip distance and its own Resource that refills slowly and is only used for these Backflips, so you can not continuously backflip.

And if that is not enough, maybe the “Hunters” knowledge in Herbalism can grant an additional stack for the Health Potion, so that instead of a 15 second Cooldown on the Health Potion, it now has 2 Charges with a 15 second Recharge Time each (or maybe even 3 Charges).

And if that is not enough, maybe something else on top of that.

15

Yeah, I don’t agree with that either. We have seen cases where either classes being added to the game before, along with, or even after the introduction of an npc of whom the class is based on; as well as cases where we had npcs whom hadn’t been used as a mold for new playable classes.

That’s where talents can come in as they can let you specialize in killing bosses. However class systems shouldn’t force players into that role unless they themselves want to play that role.

For example instead of a class system where you can mark single targets for more damage (which again works better for a talent ability); Hunters could instead use a coating system where they can use vials to coat their weapons with various affects. For example arrows could be coated with explosive substance so that your arrows are now explosive arrows, or traps could be coated with venom so that your traps would poison any enemies it hits along with their normal affects. This type of system would offer players additional creativity when building their characters on par with that of the Arsenal and Enchantment system, while at the same time doesn’t relegate the Hunter into a Boss Killer role.

16

i like the coating idea
would work for daggers and arrows aswell
maybe not for traps but who knows

17

Exploring it a bit, we could see something like this:

Vial of a Chilling Substance: A chilling substance that can be used to coat weapons with, granting them a chilling strike and 5% bonus damage done as cold damage. Enemies that are hit are chilled along with a 10% chance of being frozen. 3 Resource Cost is added to non-resource generator skills coated with this substance. Resource generated is decreased by 15% if applicable.

Vial of a Burning Substance: A burning substance that can be used to coat weapons with, granting them a burning strike and 5% bonus damage done as fire damage. Enemies that are hit have a 35% chance of being set ablaze. 3 Resource Cost is added to skills coated with this substance. Resource generated is decreased by 15% if applicable.

Vial of an Electric Substance: An electric substance that can be used to coat weapons with, granting them an electric strike and 5% bonus damage done as lightning damage. Enemies that are hit have a 10% chance of getting stunned with paralysis. 3 Resource Cost is added to non-resource generator skills coated with this substance. Resource generated is decreased by 15% if applicable.

Vial of a Toxic Substance: A venomous substance that can be used to coat weapons with, granting them a venomous strike and 5% bonus damage done as poison damage. Enemies that are hit have a 35% chance of being poisoned. 3 Resource Cost is added to non-resource generator skills coated with this substance. Resource generated is decreased by 15% if applicable.

Vial of an Explosive Substance: An explosive substance that can be used to coat weapons with, granting them an explosive blow and 20% bonus damage. Projectiles no longer pierce. 13 Resource Cost is added to skills coated with this substance. Resource generated is decreased by 80% if applicable.

Vial of a Plaguing Substance: A plaguing substance that can be used to coat weapons with, granting them a sickening strike and 3% bonus damage. Enemies that are hit have a 20% chance of dealing 10% less damage and taking 5% more damage. 7 Resource Cost is added to skills coated with this substance. Resource generated is decreased by 50% if applicable.

How to apply coats?: You can apply coats, either individually or collectively, using the skill slots on your skill bar. This way you could choose to either apply your skill bar with a single coating affect, or apply different coating affects to different skill slots to suit your preference and build. Pretty much when you’re choosing a skill to set to a skill slot, you could also choose to either apply a coating effect to the skill slot or remove one. Once a coating effect has been applied to a skill slot, whatever skill you set to that skill slot would gain the effect of the Coat also set there.

For example let’s say we have someone who set their skill bar with the following coating effects:

1: No Coating

2: Chilling Coating

3: Plaguing Coating

4: Chilling Coating

5: No Coating

6: Explosive Coating

Now let’s take Multishot (a skill that would likely be among a Diablo Archer type class’s skillset), and set it to the 1st skill slot. While there, Multishot would have no coating and such no added effect. However set Multishot to the 2nd skill slot and the skill would now chill enemies with a small chance to freeze them also, albeit at an additional resource cost; or set it to the 6th skill slot and Multishot would now explode when it hit enemies dealing significantly more damage but also costing more resource. And this would apply for almost all skills.

A minor note, while different coating effects can stack, coating effects of the same coat won’t stack. So you could use a coating affect of fire and ice on two different skills and apply both of the effects on the same monster. However you won’t be able to apply and stack additional plaguing coating effects on the same monster, even if you use two different skills with the plaguing coat. This would also apply for multiple hunters fighting together (so 5 Hunters wouldn’t be able to stack 5 different plaguing effect on the World Boss).

Admittedly there are some flaws with the concept. One such flaw would indeed be Traps. However the issue there imo lies mostly whether the traps for the Hunter would operate similar to Diablo 2 Assassin’s traps (Mystical Constructs that draws strength from magic to operate and attack), or Diablo 3 Demon Hunter’s Sentries (Physical Devices that are possesses gears and working mechanisms and mostly uses weapons for attacking with instead of magic). If the Hypothetical Hunter class uses traps that are magical based, then yeah it wouldn’t really work that well… Well it would still work, it’d just be weird from a lore perspective. However, if the traps are physical based with little magic reliance in terms of operating and/or weaponry, then it would be fine imo.

18

yea, more like how do traps actually work
if they are just like towers that shoot stuff around, it can theoretically be covered too
also if you have all the elemental coats, you can focus on different types of attacks, traps, etc. and not care about elemental attacks like they did in D2, because coats could cover (pun intended^^) that

19

Exactly, also if they bring back elemental damage in Weapons (which imo, they should), then that would let Hunter attacks potentially deal double elemental damage depending on the weapon. For example a Bow with lightning damage that also uses a skill coated in ice would deal both lighting and ice damage to an enemy.

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20

Samurais can do all kind of stuff. Could work for Diablo.