D4: Attributes and Stat – Blizzard: MAKE A NEW GAME PLS!

General Discussion
44

I’m not sure how you can come to that conclusion. Three of the four stats are directly from Diablo 2. The stats on gear will likely resemble more towards Diablo 3.

I am totally expecting the new D4 items, a peice of armor for example, will consist of +Def rating, some combination + Critical chance OR Crit % (but likely not on the same item slot), Dodge, +HP, Cooldown reduction, -potion cooldown, elite damage reduction, dodge chance, resistance or Spell affect.

+a random legendary power, of course.

I would be surprised if see +base stats on armor, because that would drive progression more towards gear than stat allocation., but I expect a wide variety of different stats on armor.

45

Same. I prefer direct damage increase to be left out if the main stat of the class grants a reliable damage mitigation layer such as armor or resistance. I rather have glass cannon elusive stereotypes to have direct damage increase by main stats and indirect damage increase, some defense cutting abilities to be attached to the highly defensive stats related to their class.
Yet, I’m not the one to make a call for that as PvE endgame isn’t there yet. Regarding PvP, I have a hunch where some characters will hit harder with their skills (%weapon damage efficiency) instead just to keep up with others if that’s the direction they go.

46

Each node only needs 2-4 (since some can be combos; like Str+Dex).
And most of those bonuses can be, and arguably should be, fairly simple. Most of them could just be different takes on the same bonus.

Like whirlwind node:
Whirlwind has a 10% base proc chance to stun enemies for 2 sec. Fury cost increased by 30%
200 str: A stunned target takes 10% more dmg from all your attacks.
100 dex: A stunned target bleeds for Dex*X dmg over 5 seconds
150 int: Hitting a stunned target gives you 3 fury per hit (can only proc 2 times per second)
200 will: Hitting a stunned target with a non-WW attack gives you 200 HP per hit (can only proc 2 times per second)

47

A bit of derail but still in the topic (probably)

Recently did an Affix Pool generator that I think has a lot of D2-esque elements to it but is catered toward more modern gameplay (and a couple of affixes specifically from D4)

Curious to what some of you think about those :thinking:

Defensive Affixes

ReduceDamageFromBasicAttacks for/by 0/0%

ReduceDamageFromSpecialAttacks for/by 0/0%

LimitImpairTypesTaken for/by 0/0%

LimitImpairStacksTaken for/by 0/0%

ReduceSubsequentDamage for/by 0/0%

ReduceSubsequentImpairAndCC for/by 0/0%

While InCrowd ReduceDamageFromBasicAttacks for/by 0/0%

While InCrowd ReduceDamageFromSpecialAttacks for/by 0/0%

While InCrowd ReduceSubsequentDamage for/by 0/0%

While InCrowd ReduceSubsequentImpairAndCC for/by 0/0%

While OneOnOne ReduceDamageFromBasicAttacks for/by 0/0%

While OneOnOne ReduceDamageFromSpecialAttacks for/by 0/0%

While OneOnOne ReduceSubsequentDamage for/by 0/0%

While OneOnOne ReduceSubsequentImpairAndCC for/by 0/0%

Offensive Affixes

Increase ResistancePenetration for/by 0/0%

Increase ArmorPenetration for/by 0/0%

Increase GuaranteedMinimumPhysicalDamage for/by 0/0%

Increase GuaranteedMinimumElementalDamage for/by 0/0%

Increase AtkSpeed for/by 0/0%

Increase HitEffectChance for/by 0/0%

Increase HitEffectPower for/by 0/0%

Increase StackOrBuffCapacity for/by 0/0%

Increase StackOrBuffPower for/by 0/0%

Increase SkillLevel for/by 0/0%

Skill Affixes

A bit of clearance about skill types though:

> * Targetted = Skillshots or dash-engage stuff (click on one target or largely impact one target most of the time, projectiles, but also dashes, charges & such)
> 
> * Melee = not just melee but ALSO skills that are "self-cast" in a radius (like Whirlwind, Wave of Force, or Frost/Nova, or HotA for example)
> 
> * AoE = skills that "land" somewhere where an indicator is chosen (Meteor)

ReduceCost of Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCost of Targetted Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCost of Area Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCost of Melee Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCost of Physical Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCost of Elemental Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCost of Overtime Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Targetted Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Area Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Melee Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Physical Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Elemental Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceCD of Overtime Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Targetted Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Area Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Melee Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Physical Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Elemental Skills for/by 0/0%

ReduceNodeRequirement of Overtime Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Targetted Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Area Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Melee Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Physical Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Elemental Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseUnlockedNodePower of Overtime Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Targetted Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Area Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Melee Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Physical Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Elemental Skills for/by 0/0%

IncreaseRangeOrArea of Overtime Skills for/by 0/0%

While Healthy ReduceCost of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Healthy ReduceCD of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Healthy ReduceNodeRequirement of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Healthy IncreaseRangeOrArea of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Impaired ReduceCost of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Impaired ReduceCD of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Impaired ReduceNodeRequirement of Skills for/by 0/0%

While Impaired IncreaseRangeOrArea of Skills for/by 0/0%

While CCed ReduceCost of Skills for/by 0/0%

While CCed ReduceCD of Skills for/by 0/0%

While CCed ReduceNodeRequirement of Skills for/by 0/0%

While CCed IncreaseRangeOrArea of Skills for/by 0/0%

While BuffedOrShielded ReduceCost of Skills for/by 0/0%

While BuffedOrShielded ReduceCD of Skills for/by 0/0%

While BuffedOrShielded ReduceNodeRequirement of Skills for/by 0/0%

While BuffedOrShielded IncreaseRangeOrArea of Skills for/by 0/0%

Stat Affixes

Increase HP for/by 0/0%

Increase Resource for/by 0/0%

Increase PrimaryStat for/by 0/0%

Increase MoveSpeed for/by 0/0%

Increase Resistance for/by 0/0%

Increase SocketPower for/by 0/0%

Increase TriggerChance for/by 0/0%

Increase TriggertPower for/by 0/0%

HitEffect Affixes

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to CriticalHit on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to Stun on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to Bleed on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to Knockback on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to IgnoreStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to ReturnStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to ReduceStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to Blind on Hit for/by 0/0%

Targetted Skills have a 0% chance to CleaveOrPierce on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to Multicast on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to Freeze on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to Root on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to Ignite on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to ShockOrPurge on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to Wither on Hit for/by 0/0%

Area Skills have a 0% chance to ReduceStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to Knockback on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to ReturnStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to ReduceStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to Silence on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to Blind on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to CleaveOrPierce on Hit for/by 0/0%

Melee Skills have a 0% chance to CrushingBlow on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to CriticalHit on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to Stun on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to Bleed on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to Knockback on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to IgnoreStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to ReturnStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Physical Skills have a 0% chance to ReduceStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to Multicast on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to Freeze on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to Root on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to Ignite on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to ShockOrPurge on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to Wither on Hit for/by 0/0%

Elemental Skills have a 0% chance to ReduceStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Overtime Skills have a 0% chance to IgnoreStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Overtime Skills have a 0% chance to ShockOrPurge on Hit for/by 0/0%

Overtime Skills have a 0% chance to ReduceStat on Hit for/by 0/0%

Overtime Skills have a 0% chance to Silence on Hit for/by 0/0%

Overtime Skills have a 0% chance to Blind on Hit for/by 0/0%

Trigger Affixes

0% chance to TrapOrSummon OnCast

0% chance to ElementalNova OnCast

0% chance to ElementalAura OnCast

0% chance to Buff OnCast

0% chance to SelfCleanse OnCast

0% chance to WaveOfForce WhenHit

0% chance to Barrier WhenHit

0% chance to MirrorImageDecoy WhenHit

0% chance to CurseDef WhenHit

0% chance to FrostOrShockNova WhenHit

0% chance to Shackle OnHit

0% chance to Knockdown OnHit

0% chance to Imprison OnHit

0% chance to Levitate OnHit

0% chance to AngerUp OnHit

Monster Affixes
– These aren’t done yet but most likely would be less damage taken from X mob type (basic attack, special attack, CCorImpair), or more damage done to (Spell type X, damage type X, Hit effect type X) to those

1 Like
48

Agreed.
They are going deep with “Class themes” but Attributes being the same among all classes is a bit weird. You can’t really measure the skills of a Barbarian and Sorceress by the same standards.
Just throwing some stuff out there but…

Sorceress could have possible Attributes
Intelligence, Wisdom, Focus, Elusiveness, Willpower

Barbarian
Strength, Endurance, Fortitude, Fury, Ruthlessness, Instinct

Some of the above examples could even be shard among other classes. Instinct for example could easily fall under the Druid. The same for Wisdom as well.
The Rogue, could have something like Cunning/Guile as an Attribute.

Also not a big fan of Damage on Attributes. D2 had damage on Strength but it appears to “attribute” very little to damage. D3 was a main stat dump fest. I think with the passive system we are currently aware of would benefit from having no damage on attributes. Make them purely defensive/utility based. That same system would also benefit from more Class themed attributes allowing for bonuses coming from all attributes that make sense for that class.
Damage can come from the passives/skills/gear. Maybe even some endgame systems we haven’t heard of yet for finetuning the previous three.

(If any of this is a repeat of something others have said, I didn’t fully read through the post. :wink:)

49

We were comparing current attributes with ADA, not D2’s. Only 2 (Strength and Dexterity) come from D2 btw.

Now yes, the 5 points per level and breakdown idea are basically D2, with some non negligible changes. Interestingly enough, many of the attributes effect are similar to one of the discarded D3 iterations of attributes (+Crit Chance, +Energy regen etc.)

Well yes, that’s a non-exhaustive list of D4 current affixes.

There were already +attributes on armor pieces in the december blog, nothing too crazy though, compared to what we saw at Blizzconline.

Oh, yes, the combos ! I like that.
Not every node needs to have an additional effect from every attributes too. It may be 2 out of 3, so for instance :
Node 1 : Str ; Dex ; Int
Node 2 : Str+Dex ; Will
Node 3 : Str ; Int+Will

So a total of 10 effects, that’s still manageable, keeping in mind there are about 25 skills per class, so 250 effects plus Legendary/Unique powers. Still a lot to create and balance…

1 Like
50

Well, I don’t even understand half of the first category. ^^
Affixes need to be kept as simple as possible.
I kinda like the current D4 affix pool. I would just add +skill ranks or a few special affixes for Uniques like “+X% to max res”.

I don’t think so. It’s how most RPG games work.
Also, it’s easier to get cross-class items if they share the same stats.

51

To unlock some bonuses on the node? That’s a nice idea.

52

Yeeah, kinda expected that tbh… Thought wouldn’t be THAT bad but turned out how it turned out lol

Not necessarily, sure clarity is needed but isn’t the most important value… What is the most important value for an affix (or affix category) is competition

Will explain the first ones since they seemed to cause you trouble :smiley: , just to see/imagine how it would work :thinking:

ReduceDamageFromBasicAttacks for/by 0/0%

  • [pretty self-explanatory, damage taken reduced by X, or X% (DEF rating for ex.)]

ReduceDamageFromSpecialAttacks for/by 0/0%

  • [this one refers to casters and elite effects if such, basically less damage from any spell casted by a mob (bull charge, phase beast teleport backstab, or an elite affix like fire chains or whatever)]

LimitImpairTypesTaken for/by 0/0%

  • [this is probably the most confusing one but still worth taking into consideration, what it means is there’s a limit to how many types of negative status/debuff effects you can endure, for example if the affix is limit to 2 (extreme late game example) if you’ve been poisoned and have sacrifice effect on you you’re basically “immune” to further impair damage, like bleed or another debuff/curse]

LimitImpairStacksTaken for/by 0/0%

  • [this one is a bit more easy to understand, reduces the power but not the limit of types taken, for example if you have limit to 4 stacks, then you can’t get “poisoned” further with more DoT than having 4 stacks of DoT damage on you]

ReduceSubsequentDamage for/by 0/0%

  • [A bit less intuitive but still good version of FHR, basically means any damage taken within the say some threshold of 0.2 seconds between attacks, reduces those subsequent attacks by X or X%, would be really useful vs groups of archers for ex. as only the first arrow would deal the full damage and subsequent arrows would deal lesser amount, but guess what, having this as your “main defensive” strat you won’t have some/most of the others of this tier]

ReduceSubsequentImpairAndCC for/by 0/0%

  • [Pretty self explanatory IMO, reduces CC trains by adding a diminishing effect to CC endured. This also affects apparently Impairs also so further stacks of debuffs/curses will also have some reduced power]

P.S. the “When hit” triggers also kinda belong to this category, i.e. your “primary defensive affix” (other than Def/Armor) could also be one of these:

0% chance to WaveOfForce WhenHit
0% chance to Barrier WhenHit
0% chance to MirrorImageDecoy WhenHit
0% chance to CurseDef WhenHit
0% chance to FrostOrShockNova WhenHit

NOTE: ignore the 0% at % (don’t wanna use string to put X lol)

I guess (and is obvious) it’s not as clear as should be but think if you consider each of those separately/together and consider you could get only like 2 of these (say chest and helm only) per total gear, you’d realize the value of each of these and the competition they’d provide overall (for example having FHR vs Cannot be frozen , or %HP bonus in D2 terms in the same “tier”, and could have only one of those)

But again, sry 4 the derail…

@OT
Think Blizz is on a good track (overall) with the skill nodes (they showed us a PoC, i.e. proof of concept, not a full example), but my personal opinion is that gear should be able to further impact those choices overall (like having an affix of “increase movement speed while channeling” resulting in a faster whirlwind or a build with some kind of “homing barrage” for ex.)

53

Yup, meant D3.

Yup.

Yup, though I seem to recall stats functioning differently among the difference classes. been awhile since I poured over that blog exhaustively.

Not a fan. I like affixes on legendaries instead of skill nodes. I want to combine legendary affixes on items to tweak the skills I pick out to work the way I want.

The word your looking for is impossible.

54

Cross-class items, that one is something I didn’t really think about with having Stat increases on the items. But the issue still stems from how they are doing their classes for D4.
The current Attributes do not fit into each class. If items had similar requirements from D2 then sure, it would make sense. but they are making Attributes more class specific not item specific.

My new suggestion then is to unify the attribute names in order to align more for each class.
Grim dawn had a pretty good way of this even though it had an open class system. I think it can be used as an influence for D4. My examples below.

Physique - Change to something like “Power or Ability”
Cunning - Change to “Guile”
Spirit - Change to “Wisdom or Insight”
Willpower - This was the only D4 attribute I feel like can fit into any class.

Each of the above can do similar things for each class or have one or two stats switched so while Guile might allow for dodge chance among 2 classes it might have dodge chance switched out with something else for the others.
This would also solve the Cross-Class Item issue and fix the original issue I had with the system.

55

Trust me I’ve attempted this before (making 6 primary stats and each class can get only up to 4), it’s really a mess to think of 12 relevant stats (6 on offence, 6 on defence) and put/combine those

Had something like:

Strength, Ferocity, Dexterity, Willpower, Intelligence, Adaptation

And ended up in quite a mess tbh:

Str: DEF/Phy-damage
Fer: BlockChance/HitEffectPower
Dex: CCMitigation/HitEffectChance
WP: ImpairMitigation/ResourceReturn
Int: Res/Ele-damage
Ada: HPSustain/CDR

The problem is which class uses which:

For ex. Barb is Str/Fer/Dex/WP, does that mean he’s a “dead duck” for any ele-damage and not able to get resistances ?, (or at least not sufficient amount, or even without the WP not being able to “spec” into Life-return ?)

Or say Druid is Str/Fer/Int/Adap ?, does that mean s/he won’t have any way to reduce incoming CC amount ? (would suck if not able to put the fight against high CC creatures like Golems & such for ex)

So THAT despite being “clear” (for the sake of clarification), kinda “pigeonholes” classes IMO :thinking:

57

I had taken some inspiration from Grim Dawn and tweaked that idea for a more D4 related class system.

Possible stats associated with each attribute below. (Stat association could be different for each class) (I also try not to put damage on things, Idk damage on these for D4 feel like an attempt at a main stat. While things like semi damage things like Attack Speed and crit chance chance could be ok, assuming that the option of more than one was there.) Not biggest fan of crit chance either, D3 flashbacks. Hopefully they don’t make Crit chance as important in D4.

Attack Speed, Resource cost reduction, Defense, All Res (or even associate different resists to different attributes), Crit chance, Healing Received, Move Speed, Resource Pool, Resource Generation, CC Resist, CC Duration increase, CDR, Dodge chance.
(Obviously these are just examples of what could be associated with different attributes and not every single one has to be there. But you could also have specific staples across all classes.[Based on current D4 Attribute stats] - Defense, All Res, Dodge chance, Crit chance.)

[Possible universal attributes]
Ability or Power
Guile
Wisdom
Willpower

[Some Possible Class Examples]

Sorceress
Ability - Crit Chance, Resource Cost Reduction
Guile- Attack Speed, Dodge Chance
Wisdom-All Res, Healing Received
Willpower- Def, CDR

Barbarian
Ability - Crit Chance, Resource Generation
Guile- Dodge Chance, CC Resist
Wisdom- All Res, Healing Received
Willpower - Def, Attack Speed

Willpower allows for the increasing of Def, pushing through the pain of being hit with
your Willpower. For the Sorc Willpower also allows them to push themselves and bypass the Cooldowns they might have. For the Barbarian this use of willpower allows them to push past their attack speed restraint to swing their weapon faster.

(these are just possible examples and nothing is required to be set in stone.)

58

Why is this necessary? Though it really makes little sense for a Sorceress to be interested in Strength, or a Barbarian in Intelligence, they are widely accepted and familiar archtypes.

If you want to split hairs, I do like “Focus” more than Intelligence. Focus just makes more sense in reference to increasing damage of spells and resistance to spells.

Willpower is the one I like the least.

I think the most intuitive path would have been:

Str–> Increases armor and melee skill damage
Dexterity–> Increases Critical Hit % and +Dodge.
Focus–> Increase resistances and spell damage.
Energy → Increases healing and resource gain.

59

Your example is exactly what the D4 team ended up using lol, it’s just they don’t use some weird names like Phisique or Guille… Str/Dex/Int/WP, pretty simple :slight_smile:

On the other hand I agree with the Crits, but not necessarily the stat itself, I think the bigger problem is that it can be hit by anything (Blizzard, Frozen Orb, e.t.c.), instead Crit should be something more “reserved” for precision attacks like a Knife throw or some 1-target charge skill IMO

That’s why I ended up using 3 types of skills (Targetted, Melee, AoE) and 3 types of damages (Physical, Elemental, Overtime) for skill management overall… And for example whilst a melee skill is more likely to cause a stun hit effect, an AoE skill would more likely be to freeze or root a target (but never crit) IMO… Speaking of crit I guess I still did something like it, added a separate effect called “multicast” for that purpose, a hit effect which would “freely” cast another instance of the same, but deal a significantly-less/only-certain% of the original, say starting point around 25 or 30% without any empowerments), which damage might sound like being the main-idea but isn’t, the main idea behind multicast is to maximize “secondary gains” like mana (i.e. resource) return for ex.

Overall = if you have Crit as a SEPARATE/specific stat I’d agree, but if you combine it with other hit-effects (like hit effect chance and hit effect power), you’d end up in a nice alround spot :thinking:

60

Digged up one of my old posts on attribute systems. Havent really changed my opinion much on it.

A goal for any attribute system (same goals as for gear affixes really) should be;

  1. Make all classes potentially care about all attributes (which imo makes “+melee dmg”, or “+spell dmg” bad candidates for attribute effects)
  2. Mmake each attribute only useful to some builds within each class. So, try not to have generic +dmg, a least be very careful with doing that.

All in all, I’d go with stuff like this:

Str: Increase single target dmg, chance to stun targets, physical resistance
Dex: increase attack speed, dodge and block chance
Int: Increase aoe radius (not dmg), elemental resistance
Wis: Increase damage over time, reduce debuff duration, maybe reduce resource cost slightly (dangerous affix though)

Also add the 3 ADA powers as new item affixes (increased buff duration, decreased debuff duration, increase proc chance).

Give each skill node 2-4 unlockable bonuses for the 4 attributes. If you have enough attributes to unlock more than 1 bonus on a node, you can pick which one you want to be active. (P.S.: Move the damn skill nodes into separate trees for each skill)

Not at all. It would be nothing compared to what other modern A-RPGs offer.
Heck, the amount of skills in D4 so far is embarrassing, even compared to what D3 offers.

These bonuses dont even need new art/spell effects. It is just number and proc changes. And for the most part could use stuff that already exists on items etc. Copy paste.
As for balancing, assuming the bonuses are fairly small compared to what the skills and the skill nodes themselves offer, there isn’t much of a problem there either. Always hit outliers with the nerf bat of course.

I dont think it is necessary, but some people really have a hard time accepting “intelligence barbs” etc. (even though they are indeed a stable of RPG design), so if a simple name change can help people to better accept it, it would be worth it.

2 Likes
61

Yep. Take crit away from moste large AoE spells. That would go a long way to both make crit less universally good, and also make AoE less powerful. Win/win.
Same reasoning behind my “Intellect: Increase AoE radius”. Double down on AoE hitting more enemies, but with low dmg. It is a sad state of affairs in A-RPGs when everything is just getting AoEd down by default.

Alternatively to outright turning off crit for large AoE skills, give each skill their own crit dmg modifier.
Like some single target skill might get 100% effect on crit dmg. Another gets 110%. A cleave attack might get 50%, while some large AoE might get 10%
So if you have a base 100% crit dmg, and get another 100% from gear, well, you are only going to deal 20% more dmg on crits on those AoEs.

62

I liked the trigger and onhit effect list by the last half. I need an indepth read to say anything insightful.

That’s the path that Baldur’s Gate went upon. Nice choice.

Again, nice one. Also comparing main stats with each other for a mix up can determine the node path your character chose. First layer of nodes may lead you down to stat checks for strength, dexterity, intelligence, willpower/wisdom separately. While a follow up layer of multiple nodes at the next layer may compare strength and dexterity or intelligence with wisdom/willpower to each other, thereby grant interchangable bonuses depending on which one is higher or lower.

1 Like
64

The ideas aren’t perfect and honestly I’m pretty good at over complicating things.
Overall I’m attempting to get away from the main stat idea.
Adding damage to an attribute, unless adding different damage types to different attributes, only creates a situation where you choose the damage one and maybe another. No thought gets put into Attribute allocation. I’ve liked a few ideas I’ve came across here, So some of this will be influenced by those. So credit to those people.
(this next bit might be a bit all over. But hopefully the ideas get across.)

If adding other damage types

  • Damage over time [WP or Dex] (Maybe item or bonus to be able to crit?)
  • AoE damage [Int] (AoE Not able to crit)
  • Single Target [Str] (Useful with Crit)
    (What about summons like Hydra, Ice Blades, or Wolves?)

These could work as damage types. Since D4 has a more Class theme direction, meaning more than likely a Sorc won’t be wielding a Sword or heavy armors. I’ve yet to see a single example from the D4 team that shows otherwise even in the 2019 demos I don’t think I saw anyone on a sorc or druid equip a sword.

But I’m still not fully convinced with having different damage types. As I’ve seen very few single target attacks compared to AoE ones. But I also suppose that creates more choice at least, since you can’t fill up a hotbar with only AoE or Just Single Target, so you’d have to make some sacrifice and still be able to use each attribute for different builds.

I’d prefer Attributes grant utility bonuses for the most part. I don’t even want Crit on them. Like cool you get some stat bonuses that improve resources or move speed. Whatever. But have most of your damage come from Gear + Skills + Passives.

  • All Attributes should matter to some degree

  • All Attributes should have Passive bonuses attached to them in the current Passive Tree. Bonuses for having Str, Int, Dex, and WP.

  • Attributes should compliment your Skill/Passive/and maybe item choices without effecting damage directly.

Something I would like to know is…
Why do a lot of people seem to desire any type of damage on attributes?
I get a lot of games do this, but that is not a reason to have it on them. Even D2 with all its praise, had very little damage attached to the Attributes. Most builds only use the Str for gearing and it granted very little damage.
Even PoE only has damage on Str and that only effects “Physical Melee Damage”. So realistically you don’t need damage on any attribute.
The effect they have on passives/skills/items should be enough for D4. Give passives bonuses for all 4 attributes, Could even link Attributes to some items, such as giving you a stat boost based off of points in an attribute to make some interesting gearing options. (every 10 strength gives .2% Fire Resist.)
This would allow for each class to have Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Willpower Builds.

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At the top of my head the reason is to create a greater/more-obvious difference in impact as well as adhere to the fantasy overall

Like you’d probably appreciate a Barb that has more points into STR have somewhat stronger stun & stuff whilst a one that has more points into int probably have some fire damage stuff better

It also might provide a bit of “exit” from trapping yourself into only one thing and then get completely stuck into some part of the game where some types of opponents counter completely what you’ve been doing… :thinking: ?

Not sure and I get the potential for concern (especially if people feel bad about the latest part, for ex. putting lots of str in a char that has abilities based on Dex or Int in order to “make up” for a weakness and therefore “not get punished” as much), but again - don’t think it’s a detriment as long as each damage/ability type brings something to the table tbh

You might be (probably) right with not having a lot of Targetted abilities but think Blizz could add some… I mean there are classes that have abundance of it (like Sorc with the projectiles, or Rogue with the arrow and dashing strikes), but some that have almost none (Barb has only ancient spear afaik ?, they could just as well add a couple others, one could be the good ol’ Bone Spear, think would fit thematically well on the Barb this time, and another could be some impale, probably with a Spear or a Polearm usage & such)

So the potential is there, I mean we saw the “Inferno” skill for the Sorc, something that wasn’t in the game before afair :slight_smile:

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