I have played pc since commander keen, pixel fest scorched earth, Jill of the jungle, to green screened number munchers on a Mac.
I had Duck hunt/Mario before a pc came into the house. Since my grandpa build my first computer as he worked for IBM, I was pretty much just pc.
Later on and still to this day I have a console, Xbox one now. The talk about one platform being more casual than another is asinine. Both platforms have hardcore players and casuals.
Good point.
Itās easy to say WoW is low lethality when you only do things like RDF or LFR. Try forgetting to turn off the petās aggro in a mythic+ and see what happens :v
Eh Iām not sure about that. Dota allstars (the warcraft 3 map) had a pretty rough learning curve compared to just playing actual WC3 melee, to me at least.
No, your applying your own warped bias into this.
People complained because it quickly became tedious, leveling up your weapon skill over and over wasnāt fun. Having the warlock head out to gather soulshards before playing something a little bit harder just became a chore.
As you yourself put it, āwhy should balance get in the way of fun?ā, well why does immersion have to do the same?
The removal of these features is not a de-evolution of the game, but rather a shift in priorities, as they removed something, they added many more features. Making sure the game feels good to play and is approachable for anyone was the number one prio. Call it a business tactic or whatever, the bottomline is that somewhat simple games are the most played, because they found that sweet spot of simple yet challanging.
To this, Iād say that when you do it right, and the immersion doesnāt hinder the game, it can work really well, an example is skyrim which does this very well, and is arguebly one of the most popular rpgs ever made.
I think that had a lot to do with it just being a custom PvP map for Warcraft 3. If it was a game with an actual tutorial with proper designed bots to learn against, itād have been much easier.
Most of the actual game mechanics though were in Warcraft 3 since it was running on that engine, just without the base building or army command elements.
It also probably would have helped if conjured items didnāt disappear after being logged out for 15 minutes.
The real craziness weāre seeing in Classic now is the insistence by some raiders to farm every consumable and getting every world buff in the known universe before raiding.
and god help you if youāre somebody who needs the Manual Crowd Pummeler. Congratulations, your weapon is now a consumable item.
That is time consuming, not difficulty per say.
Artorias was a very hard boss in dark souls, but he can go down in 3 minutesā¦
Nope. Is literally the first video when you search for a swtich review of that game.
Boring? Niche?
ArmA 3 has 4 times more users than cod according to steamcharts
https://steamcharts.com/app/107410
https://steamcharts.com/search/?q=call+of+duty
Skill floor and skill ceiling are two different things. An game easy to learn, hard to master which hopefully D4 will gonna be, is that wayā¦
If game journalists dināt wrote crap reviews like āi canāt hit an insect swarm with an axe. The guy who gave me that quest said that i would probably need alchemical bombs, torches or AoE magic to fight then, but I attacked and dealt no damage. 0/10ā, I wouldāt consider it as a hardcore rpg.
As for lethaltiy, lethality is how quick you kill AND die. Games like M&M VI, where an single trap can kill your entire party, an single monster attack erradicate party members and so on, has high lethality. Diablo 1/2 also has high lethality combat. And D3 until you reach GRās tooā¦
And that is why I donāt like mobas. No more age of empires, warcraft 1/2/3, starcraft 1/2ā¦
And now that is too much casual, is bleeding subsā¦
There are a sweetspot between accessibility VS depth which IMO classic wow hits and pleases most people.
Having to gather soul gems to use as reagents, manage it, chose between spaces of it or spaces for loot is actually an pretty cool thing. IMO Blizzard should expanded this soul gem mechanics and having lesser soul gem, which is the soul of weakeling, medium soul gem, high soul gem and even an ultra expensive and rare soul gem that can hold the soul of bosses and unique skills allowing to enchant items usin the soul force of your fallen enemies,
That would be so awesome.
But is good that now people have both options. Those who wanna a more insta gratification, has the retail wow, those who wanna a more depth, the classic. @Saidosha said that WoW classic would be a failure. I said that would be a success and guess who was rightā¦
Those mechanics were in the Original D&D Before the Advanced was even added
What kind of problems a few reviewers you cherry pick have with the game has no bearing on if a game is casual or hardcore.
D:OS is a game that would crush most casual players.
Itās still highly variable in WoW. There are mobs you can 1 shot, and mobs that can 1 shot you. There are also mobs that take a while to kill you. and mobs that take you a while to kill.
Also GRs arenāt high lethality? It sounds like you havenāt played those either, or are taking your idea from somebody running something they massively overgear or undergear.
I could make Diablo 1 and 2 look like low lethality too.
It started bleeding subs in Cataclysm which was still before a good chunk of the changes.
You have no idea why itās bleeding subs(or even if it is right now, technically). You couldnāt because you donāt even know how the game works.
If you need to build 666 different types of buffs before attacking an enemy, you are in a low lethality gameā¦
Anyway, there are a HUGE difference between streamlining RPG elements and removing then.
For eg, imagine if to learn an spell, you need to find someone able and willing to teach you, to a test to proof that you are fully commited, then pick reagents, pay for books, read the books and ālearnā the spell after it.
Streamlining would be having questmarkers, the reagents available in merchants and etc.
Removing RPG elements would be just making you pressing a button and ending the process.
Classic wow seems to be streamlined compared to EQ. Post cata wow seems to be the second caseā¦ ābut both causes results in the sameā, well, the JOURNEY is important, not only the destination. D1/D2 had streamlined RPG elements too. D3 has none of it.
PS : On G2 - returning, there are a lot of bosses which my demonic creations canāt do any damage and I an trying to find complex reagents to upgrade my spell. For some people here, having the summon lesser demon and summon high archdemon is a waste of resources since eveyrthing that matters is end game.
You donāt need buffs, you just need gear which youāll die VERY quickly without it.
and if youāre gonna say gear counts as a buff, then again: I could very easily make Diablo 1 & 2 look like a low lethality game.
and a discussion about streamlined vs removed RPG elements in WoW isnāt something you have any credibility in, because again:
You are wrong about information with WoW more often than you are right with it. You know virtually nothing about the game and act like reading a post on Reddit means you know how the game works.
Itād be like if I kept trying to tell you how Gothic 2 worked only most of my information was wrong and every time you corrected me I just kept repeating the same misinformation over and over and over insisting that the game is the way I think it is, despite that you have thousands of hours in it and I have about 30 minutes.
By your standards for rpgs, those two have virtually none either.
I mean say what you like about d1-3,they are simple by nature and not very deep. But thatās fine, because thatās some of the charm of those games.
Honestly when somebody mentions RPGs or even Action RPGs I donāt think of Diablo at all because itās a series that basically sacrificed the RP in favour of the action.
Everything is about combat. Thereās no actual character Iām roleplaying or even able to roleplay. Even The Witcher lets me make story choices for Geralt, even if I donāt have full control over his personality.
Has simplistic RPG elements. Had attributes describing what the player can and cannot do, armor class that deflect blows, skill level measuring how good your character is with a set skill(ā¦)
Sacrifice RPG in favor of action is OK in diablo. sacrifice RPG in favor of nothing is not okā¦
Itās fine in Diablo, but it makes me hesitant to even call it a RPG. If having stats and to hit rolls makes it a RPG, we might as well call XCOM, Phoenix Point, and other turned based tactics games RPGs.
Also, most games donāt sacrifice RPG in favour of nothing.
That hasnāt been enough for you to qualify a game as a rpg, so I dont see the point youāre making here, d1-2 is pretty shallow in that department aswell compared to other games, d3 is pretty shallow aswell, but I guess since it follows the line of games, itās pretty well within the limits.
Iāve said it before, and iāll say it again, I dont believe you want another diablo, youāre looking for a game which is not this, you want something that is another one of those niche rpgs. I mean you talk more about gothic than you do about d1. Wierdly enough you talk about fallout new vegas and CoD more than you do about d1ā¦
So take a moment and think about what game you actually want.
I would say that the sweetspot here is a cooldown, and not a 3-5 second casting time.
Having a casting time would significantly lower the pace of the game, while a CD still allows you to keep the game at a face paceā¦
ā¦ however, that begs the question what at what kind of pace the game shall be (or what kind of game Diablo shall be).
Shall it be a lower pace ARPG or a faster pace ARPG? And with Faster Pace ARPG I donāt mean that it shall be as fast as D3ās or PoEās endgame.
Another question is āIs it worth it to sacrifice a certain amount of consistency for an overall better experience / a faster pace?ā.
In my opinion, it is.
like a CD instead of casting time?!
You canāt compare an game with simplistic stat alocation with an game with no stat alocation. An game with simplistic skill leveling with an game with no skill levelingā¦
You are right. Many people donāt consider D1 an RPG, however, if Diablo is not an RPG, then we shouldāt classify blobbers as RPGās
Which is quite untrue, d3 has stat allocation, just not the same as the previous games, but the paragon system is a form of stat allocation.
Which they had considered, but removed because they didnāt see it necessary, instead they made the focus on making each rune a little bit different, improving gameplay.
Console gamers hate reviewers too. So literally your search result says nothing about them.
A question though.
Would you consider an RPG where you have
First person dungeon crawling, like Ultima Underworld for example, in highly complex labyrinth dungeons full of traps and teleporters that require you to keep a map by hand in order to be able to navigate the thing at all (example: https://www.elpixelilustre.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/eridanus.jpg)
Morally ambiguous choices and a personality alignment system (chaos/neutral/lawful) where your choices decide the whole story, and where youāll likely have to kill some of your party members over diverging moral grounds
No clear line between good and evil, no objectively good ending
Highly customizable party/characters progression and strategic combat with unforgiving difficulty
Would that be a hardcore or a casual RPG to you? Or not an RPG at all? Do you think a game like that would work on console/appeal to the console market?
That would depend on the mechanics of the game itself.
Iām not tied to RPGs needing any specific mechanic to be called that but it should probably feature something to let you, you know, roleplay a character in a world.
Technically Super Mario Bros is an RPG since you assume the role of an Italian Plumber in a fantastical world.
But in regards to what RPGs mean Diablo and all ARPGs have been light in RPG aspects and heavy on the combat. Always. Hence the moniker ARPG as opposed to straight up RPG. They still fall into the RPG genre because you assume a role and have some character building either through stats skills, gear or any combination of.