Bots with 10,000 paragon level will always rule the leaderboards.
Mainstat has major impact on damage/armor.
Arguments against are just by botters trying to downplay their botting.
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It really does. It you’re 170% stronger you do in fact get 170% further. It’s multiplicative not additive so 170% of GR 100 is not GR270.
I obviously don’t have the exact values, but if GR101 is for example 50% harder than GR100, then GR103-104 would be 170% further than GR100.
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Depends how it’s seen. Because of the non linear difficulty increases in GR, a 10 to 15 GR gap in GR level is most likely viewed by most folks as pretty significant. ~8.6% numerical level difference but 170% power gain to achieve.
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I don’t agree that D3 is too heavily based on paragon levels; I think it is too heavily based on timed-event competition. That in itself lends to farming (loot and/or paragon) by those with bots or without jobs, to gain a competitive edge.
Somebody on another thread made a suggestion about tiers in ladder system based on paragon level. Kind of like weight classes in boxing. You could compare yourself to a similar person paragon wise.
I’d be a flyweight I suppose - but I thought it deserved some merit.
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Precisely this and exactly why paragon is the biggest source of multiplier.
Fyi bro, +10 GR the HP increase is 1.17^10 = 4.8x 
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Gear will always be a factor. But botting also rewards them with exp which translates to Paragon which translates to Damage / Toughness. Without being able to farm infinite exp, they’ll be constrained to a simple gear / skill check like everyone else.
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+5 GR means (1.17)^5 not (1.17)^10
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It not fun if Paragon is the only way to go if you want to push GR
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It’s not just Diablo, but most of Blizzard games that are like this. Infact there was concerns about WoW all over the world, where lot of people were going on Social Security so they can stay at home and just play this game.
I don’t understand you people.
What does it matter how much your HP and toughness grows? For all I care, it could increase by 1000 times. If it only gives me 5-10 Greater RIft levels - that still means I haven’t gotten that much farther.
HP and Damage flat numbers - is not the measure of your progression. Greater Rift level is.
When you get from 115 to 125, i.e. you progressed by 8% through the endgame content. And for what? It’s not like it is really fast to farm those 6000 paragon that you’re speaking about.
Paragon is just another bonus. Take off any one piece of your gear and replace it with a rare item - and you’ll probably stand to lose FAR more than 10 greater rifts.
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No, but take off all gear and your see how little it even matters. It matters after both players have enough gear first for it to matter. Gear is this the main source of all damage. If GR’s went up to 300 and all damage on all gear went up 4x as theya re now, you’ll see paragons don’t even matter much at all, most people would then put it into Vit and not main stat (which i think would be good move then paragon wouldnt matter as much).
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that’s completely untrue, i don’t know what game are you playing
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I don’t play D3 anymore, but all I want to say about that is, that I think, that Paragon is not an unfair thing. Faux is completely right about the fact, that gear is way more important than Paragon levels and good gear is also obtained way faster than 4000 Paragon levels.
But exactly that is one of the major problems, isn’t it? Why is my character a complete weakling, only gaining its strength by its armour? Who got the idea, to scale the stats on gear so much higher than my character stats? Can’t understand, how anybody at Blizzard thought “well, yeah let’s do that, let’s do 10mio dmg, mobs have 1bio life and as soon as you strip off your glove, your character is trash”.
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Dude you honestly just seem to be a stupid person. Your logic is flawed beyond belief. The raw GR numbers are arbitrary, what matters is how big of an increase they represent. This is the first time I have ever seen anyone do 125/115 and use that as some sort of reference point. By your brilliant logic going from 130 clear to 140 is the same as going from 13 to 14. Or wait, is 130 to 140 the same as 20 to 30? Like, do you even…?
I have noticed your arguements in many topics are generally trash, but now you just cemented your position as a clown. There is not one post of yours in this thread that makes sense so for the love of god just stop posting.
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True but paragon points supplements your damage. I just don’t think one can ignore the bonus you get from those points. The problem is that dmg from gear is finite while dmg/life from paragon levels is infinite.
How much is that bonus from paragon? Dump in a few thousand into d3 planner and you’ll see base dmg increase 2x, 3x or more.
Incorrect. If two players have the same gear and one has way more time played,but the other has way more skill, the skill player will outperform the one with more time on a timed trial (GR). Is paragon the biggest advantage in the game? No, but it is significant enough to get an advantage, otherwise, players would not risk their accounts botting 24/7 to get the max they can.
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I’m not sure how accurate this statement is. There are many skilled streamers who have admitted they can’t compete against botters due to the large gap in paragon levels.
To a certain point, if there is a large gap in power vs skill, power will win out. For example, skill might overcome a 2 to 3k paragon gap, but what if you’re looking at 8 to 10 k paragon gap?
But as I think you already know, time played does not always = more paragons. Skilled players most likely know how to effectively gain paragon points.
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I heard the more ad hominem attacks you put in your post - the stronger your position becomes.
To the matter, though - you are saying that GR numbers are arbitrary - but damage values are even more arbitrary.
In the end of the day, no one even looks at how many billions of damage you do.
Everyone looks at how high GR have you cleared. This is the progression measure, not the damage or paragon.
And then you go ahead and make an anecdotal example of GR 13-14 being the same as GR 115-125. And imply that it’s stupid to think that - which it is, but I never made that statement, so you can’t attribute that to me. Now, I think you are acutely aware of the flaws in your own logic. But just in case I hold too high opinion of you, here’s a hint. Progression and difficulty are not the same thing. The game starts easy and gets harder until you hit a ceiling eventually. But that doesn’t mean that advancing by 1 GR when you are in your hundreds already - is a huge step forward. Not really. It is your pace that gets slower, because you hit the law of diminishing returns with your gearing. Finding a huge upgrade becomes harder and harder. In the beginning, you swap gear every few minutes. As you approach the top, finding even one upgrade a day becomes good enough.
This doesn’t mean that your feeble advance of 1Gr is a huge improvement of your player strength though.
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That’s where your argument crumbles. The player who plays more will not have the same gear, he will have better gear.
You can’t just dismiss gear difference and say it is equal while not also dismissing time played. Because those two things correlate. With everything else equal, yes, skill matters. But if the time played is not equal, gear won’t be equal as well. And skill will only get you so far if the other guy has better gear.
In this game, even 1 piece of gear will overwhelm the difference in skill.
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