Crusader Players, what do you think about these changes?

[clueso-2790]

I am currently in the process of creating feedback in visual form, but before I post the final version of it, I would like to hear your feedback on the changes that I propose, so I eventually can make certain adjustments to it in the final version.

So let me hear your thoughts.

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The cooldown of Steed Charge could be reduced from 16 seconds to 12.

Builds that use the Norvald’s set already have 100% uptime on Steed Charge most of the time, while builds that don’t use that set, have to struggle with the long cooldown of the skill.

The 3 enemy limit on Drakon’s Lesson could be removed.

Instead of just reducing the Wrath cost of Shield Bash, Piro Marella could also buff the damage and attack speed of Shield Bash to finaly make Shield Bash more viable.

Nerfing Blade of Prophecy and Fryedhr’s Wrath will make it possible for other skills than just Condemn to work with the Akkhan set, which could receive a major buff (from 2000% increased damage to 12000% increased damage in this example, but that number can get adjusted) and therefore be more viable.

[Meteorblade-2266]

Probably would require some maths to confirm, but buffing Akkhan so much, whilst nerfing the Condemn legendaries just sounds like you’d be bringing back Akkhan Blessed Shield.

[clueso-2790]

@Meteorblade-2266

but buffing Akkhan so much, whilst nerfing the Condemn legendaries just sounds like you’d be bringing back Akkhan Blessed Shield.

That is the kind of feedback I am looking for.
I did not take that into account.

Maybe less of a buff on Akkhan, but buffing some other legendaries (aside from Blessed shield Legendaries) a bit more?

Or making the Akkhan set specific for certain skills, what ever these skills might be?

[Kirottu-2131]

Many people (or at least some people) have been asking for buffs to Phalanx related legendaries. There are 4 items for it and only one buffs damage a little bit, the others give only utility. Those could then be combined with the buffed Akkhan to create possibly a very fun build.

[clueso-2790]

@Kirottu-2131

Many people (or at least some people) have been asking for buffs to Phalanx related legendaries. There are 4 items for it and only one buffs damage a little bit, the others give only utility. Those could then be combined with the buffed Akkhan to create possibly a very fun build

One of them: either Condemn or Blessed Shield could become a LoD build, the other one an Akkhan build.

[Meteorblade-2266]

LoD Blessed Shield is already more effective than Akkhan Blessed Shield.

Not sure how you’d turn Akkhan into purely being Condemn unless you remove power from the associated legendaries and incorporate them into Akkhan set bonuses instead.

Of course, this would give me a sad, as I actually still have an Akkhan Blessed Shield crusader in my stable of heroes.

[clueso-2790]

@Meteorblade-2266

LoD Blessed Shield is already more effective than Akkhan Blessed Shield.

Not sure how you’d turn Akkhan into purely being Condemn unless you remove power from the associated legendaries and incorporate them into Akkhan set bonuses instead.

Of course, this would give me a sad, as I actually still have an Akkhan Blessed Shield crusader in my stable of heroe

So how much % damage would the Akkhan set need to be both viable for Blessed Shield and Condemn? And to which degree did the BoP and FW need to be adjusted?

Theoretically it can work with the right numbers.

[dmkt-1267]

Clueso, so what happens to A6I2? How are you raising A6 to 12000%?

[clueso-2790]

@dmkt-1267

so what happens to A6I2? How are you raising A6 to 12000%?

By not having considered it
… which is why I am asking for feedback.
And I am also not a Crusader main, though I would like to play it a lot more, but since Shield Bash is not viable, I have not played too much Crusader.

Maybe transfer more the Invoker damage from the 2 piece to the 6 piece, or let Akkhan not work with Thorns.

What are ways on how would you do it?

[dmkt-1267]

@clueso-2790

So how much % damage would the Akkhan set need to be both viable for Blessed Shield and Condemn? And to which degree did the BoP and FW need to be adjusted?

AKKHAN VS LOD/LON
Akkhan6 cannot exceed LoD/LoN. The utility from Akkhan is already too great, really no more than 4000% on A6, otherwise you completely lose LoD as an option kinda like with Demon Hunters sets. Let’s set Akkhan 6pc to 4000% as a hypothetic.

CONDEMN VS BLESSED SHIELD
A6 Condemn and A6 Blessed Shield are roughly 3-4GRs apart in power. I would not tamper with Condemn’s weapons. Condemn wears Crimson and Aughilds. A6 Blessed Shield only wears Crimson.

Keep in mind the defense and wrath costs are horrendous for LoD Condemn.
I could see these clears happening in the 5k paragon range:

	Condemn	Blessed Shield
Akkhan	GR130	GR127
LoD	GR131	GR135

That in mind, do not nerf Condemn’s weapons at all. Condemn is already inferior to other skills. It becomes far less desirable with gimped weaponry.

RECOMMENDED UPDATES
Akkhan 6pc: 4000% +5GR
Condemn Weapons: 1100% each (yeah, buff that baby) +4GR
Akkhan’s Leniancy: 75%
Justice Lantern: 75% DR capped
Invoker 2pc: 20% per stack
Invoker 6pc: 500% to sheet thorns.

Justice Lantern provides much better survival in LoD it is a much needed upgrade. LoD Blessed Shield pairs this item with SoJ for +1 GR, whereas before it used Unity.

	Condemn	Blessed Shield
Akkhan	GR139	GR136
LoD	GR136	GR140

[dmkt-1267]

@clueso-2790

Instead of just reducing the Wrath cost of Shield Bash, Piro Marella could also buff the damage and attack speed of Shield Bash to finaly make Shield Bash more viable.

FYI: I took Roland’s Shield Bash on a trip the other day, I must confess this build was incredibly fun. I had a little dilemma though: I was forced to squeeze Norvald’s into the build. It ended up being the strongest setup without Piro Marella or Final Witness. That made me sad.

The Norvald version was capable of GR115-120, but my char wasnt optimized so I cannot really offer the most precise numbers.

I wanted to use these 3 weapons:

1. Flail of the Ascended
2. Final Witness
3. Piro Marella

Together with Drakon’s Lesson, these items should multiply Shield Bash out to hit for like 50-60T a pop in CoE+Oculus. Shield Glare can then release for 500-600T against all enemies.

Piro Marella is great, do you think the 30% Attack Speed is going to do anything helpful with 5APS from Rolands 6pc? I’d probably raise the mod on this to 750% damage.

Drakon’s Lesson I’d also raise this to 750%.

Final Witness is very satisfying. I played without it, but much prefer the all encompassing AoE. You could probably make this hit 100% harder or trigger Shield Glare twice.

I gotta say, I’m most excited about this build because it feels different than anything else out there with the manual Shield Glare casts and Shield Bash connect-the-dots style movement.

[clueso-2790]

@dmkt-1267

Piro Marella is great, do you think the 30% Attack Speed is going to do anything helpful with 5APS from Rolands 6pc?

My primary intent to put attack speed on there was to give the shield something more special than all the other legendaries that also reduce resource cost and increase the damage, and since Shield Bash on its own - without Roland’s - attacks kinda slowly, I simply decided to put attack speed on it, because it also would help Shield Bash LoD builds.

If it makes much of a difference in a Roland’s build depends on if the Attack Speed is additive or multiplicative with the other attack speed bonuses.

But for the sake of simplicity I sure can change Piro Marella to 800%, as well as Drakon’s Lesson.

@dmkt-1267

Final Witness is very satisfying. I played without it, but much prefer the all encompassing AoE. You could probably make this hit 100% harder or trigger Shield Glare twice.

What about this:

Flail of the Ascended
Increases Shield Bash damage by 800%

Final Witness
Shield Glare now hits all enemies around you and deals damage equal to up to 200% of of the damage of your last 5 Shield Bash casts.

[dmkt-1267]

Those changes would help.

In the unoptimized build I played, my bashes were critting for like 5T and glares 16T.

The bashes would be 16T and glares 240T. I know I needed a ton of optimization lol.

I specifically checked the LoD version to see if Flail of the Ascended would double dip the LoD bonus, no surprises there. This random thought was the whole reason i tested it in the first place.

Rolands was much more powerful than LoD, not sure how to overcome this without boosting LoD.

Beware of raising LoD, we have some saders here posting GR140+ clears with Bombardment.

[clueso-2790]

@dmkt-1267

I specifically checked the LoD version to see if Flail of the Ascended would double dip the LoD bonus, no surprises there. This random thought was the whole reason i tested it in the first place.

Did it double dip?
That might be worth knowing in regards to balance Final Witness in for a potential redesign.

@dmkt-1267

Beware of raising LoD, we have some saders here posting GR140+ clears with Bombardment.

Oh yeah, buffing LoD would be a terrible idea overall, unless some of the top LoD builds get their other legendaries nerfed.

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I will make an update to this post and its proposals, eventually removing the proposed changes to Akkhan, Blade of Prophecy and Frydehr’s Wrath, but adding new stuff for Flail of the Ascended and Final Witness, as well as an uptade for Drakon’s Lesson and Piro Marella.

Thank you all so much for your feedback!

[jay-1401]

@clueso-2790

The cooldown of Steed Charge could be reduced from 16 seconds to 12.

Builds that use the Norvald’s set already have 100% uptime on Steed Charge most of the time, while builds that don’t use that set, have to struggle with the long cooldown of the skill.

There’s a bug with the increased attack speed of rolands and bash, the animation essentially makes it impossible for bash to get the full benefit of any attack speed bonus. Bash has been crippled for a long time because of this. Essentially you’d have to strip any attack speed bonus out of Bash and just give it straight damage and RCR or something.

[clueso-2790]

@jay-1401

There’s a bug with the increased attack speed of rolands and bash, the animation essentially makes it impossible for bash to get the full benefit of any attack speed bonus. Bash has been crippled for a long time because of this

I heard of that, but I don’t know the exact numbers.

Shield Bash definitely benefits from the Attack Speed bonus of Rolands, but to which degree?

And are you saying that it also does not work well with other sources of attack speed, like x% increased attack speed from normal blue affixes on items?

No wonder even the base versions of this skill are so slow.

Do you have more concrete numbers for how much attack speed does not get applied?

Thanks!