Im kinda interested to see if these powers actually are like Fable. Where they end up influencing your Story line or if they are more like factions like horde alliance and offer specific town hubs to you and or places exclusive to that. Would be kinda cool if you had 2 opposites of the world one light and one dark and u could go full out war against the other faction. That would definatly be new and interesting.
sigh
Zolton Kulle wanted to enhance his powers by using an item imbued with the souls/essences of the most powerful demons or angels.
the StarCraft Kid is proposing an Affix system in which the powers of the Nephalim will be enhanced by items imbued with the essences of demons or angels.
the StarCraft kid hasn’t fully developed his system, we don’t know the extent of the affixes, but its possible that one of them could be “Mephistophlian Aura: a toggled debuff that reduces hit chance, hit speed … etc”
We are talking about an Affix system. we are not talking about a Character Alignment system. We’ve touched on the notion that it could be a system reflective of, or binding on, the character’s alignment. That would make “Diablo” a modern Christian story.
The affix system as proposed by the StarCraft kid functions exactly like existing systems in D3. Like the Set systems. (Quin did say; “I hate Sets!”) Or, iirc, like the ring that gives you a bonus if you only have Ancient items equipped. Items will have one of the three Affixes, demonic, angelic or ancestral, and for each item equipped with one of those affixes it will raise your score in that Affix and at a certain score it will unlock other, more powerful affixes. JUST LIKE SETS. 2 pieces of a set, unlocks a more powerful ability. 4 pieces of a set unlocks an even more powerful ability…etc…etc. So, the Demonic/Angelic/Ancestral system is just SETS!
Since the system being proposed by the StarCraft kid has no logic whatsoever, as I am saying, it does NOT fit thematically into the current Diablo thematic universe, there is thus no reason, especially not logic, why the StarCraft kid couldn’t insert this system into StarCraft. A Terran being randomly given an ability that only the Zerg previously possessed, by accruing points in the tech tree.
And this is exactly covered on my second paragraph. Just because your cellphone batery is essentialy the same battery the Hornsdale Power Reserve uses, they are still two very different things on completely different leagues. Equating the Black Soulstone to any other item is just trying way too hard to downplay something to fit your narrative.
While it’s true that those systems are similar, you’re again looking at things in a absurdly simplistic manner just so you’re able to fit a narrative. The huge difference with sets and the proposed system for D4 is that you’re not pigeonholed into certain bonuses and can mix and match somewhat freely what aspectes of Demonic/Angelic/Ancestral you wanna get.
They would be the same as Sets from D3 if let’s say 30 Demonic got exactly only one affix for everyone, 60 got another affix, and 90 another. That’s not the case, therefore it’s a clear evolution of what sets do in D3 and while they are similar, they can’t be easily matched like you are trying to do.
It does have logic, thought. It only appears to have no logic if you try really hard to nitpick and carefuly try to interpret the lore in a way that ignores all the obvious links to lore that the system has. It’s quite simple, really. Demons and Angels are more powerful than regular humans. Full powered Nephalem are more capable than both. Humans of Sanctuary have lost their nephalem powers for a long time now, therefore using any combination of demonic/angelic/ancient power they can get their hands on is just comon sense. You are just treating these 3 powers like something that is readily available and equaly easy to get and that any kid can get as much as they want, which quite possibly is not the case.
Yeah that is a danger. Which is why there should NOT be a direct link between each ADA power and specific affixes.
As in, to ever use Fire resistance, you must have Demonic Power. That would be really bad. It could destroy the entire game.
Either the affix/power combination has to be random; so on one item, fire resistance might require Demonic power, on another item it might require Angelic power.
Or you need something like affix tiers, where only the highest tier is ADA based.
So +40 fire resist with no requirements, and +50 fire resist requires Demonic power for example. If you want to focus heavily on an affix in your build, then the ADA requirements would matter, but in most cases, you would be able to get by with the second highest affix tier.
Alternatively, you could have scaling stats, like “+40 fire resist & additionally +0.3 fire resist per Demonic Power”
Another alternative could be to have variations of the generic stats, that unlocks from ADA powers. Like, you have the generic +fire resistance stat. And then you might have a demonic power stat: “When dealing dot dmg, you gain 20 fire resist for 3 seconds”, while Angelic might have “When using a crowd control attack, gain 20 fire resist for 10 seconds” etc. Stuff that might nudge your build in a direction of course, but with clear alternatives (the normal generic affixes) that can be used instead.
As long as ADA powers do not unlock exclusive base stats (like fire resist, crushing blow, life steal, frost dmg, crit chance etc.), then the system could be quite interesting imo. Especially if the ADA powers also tie into other aspects of the game, like skills and runes that could be modified based on your ADA power focus.
Hopefully yeah, but based on what Blizzard has shown so far, we actually dont know that. It is a risk.
If all Criticial chance based builds MUST be Angelic builds, or all frost dmg builds must be Ancestral builds, then it is even worse than set items.
This would make the system too convoluted and redundant. It shouldn’t be just random. And that would also make it lose the theme of each different power.
Yeah from what I remembered, I was pretty sure those affixes would just unlock extra of some affixes. But reading again, it’s not clear that this is the case.
The only thing we know is that each power has a buff
- Angelic Power , which increases the duration of all beneficial effects (like self-buffs or healing)
- Demonic Power , which increases the duration of all negative effects (like debuffs or damage over time)
- Ancestral Power , which increases the chance of on-hit effects (aka increased proc chance)
And that those stats will unlock other stats on the item. If fire resist really can only be gained from demonic power like the System Design in Diablo IV (Part II) can suggest, then it is a problem.
~System Design in Diablo IV (Part II) — Diablo IV — Blizzard News
From that link it really looks like that some resists are completely linked to those afixes. That is indeed a problem.
This is a random accusation. and only demonstrates that you aren’t reading or understanding what I’ve said.
Those are questions. I’m asking a question about the status of Zolton Kulle, lore wise.
My point here, is that Zolton Kulle’s idea, to harness the power of angels and demons via a soulstone was supposed to have been so radical, so revolutionary, that it was madness. And, what I am saying is, that the StarCraft kid’s idea would cheapen Zolton Kulle’s idea, and make it run-of-the-mill, because other Nephalim will have been harnessing the power of demons and angels in various items for ages.
Your “Hornsdale Power Reserve” analogy, suffers from two problems. The first is the same one that Chris Metzen suffers from; i.e. If a Woman says the letter “A” as far as you are concerned there are only 25 letters in the alphabet. And the second is an ethical problem.
What I mean is, it was ADRIA that wanted to use the Black Soulstone to trap and harness the power of the demon lords and create the Prime Evil.
Zolton Kulle’s ambitions were quite modest compared to Adria’s. As I said, Zolton Kulle just wanted to enhance his own powers by harness the power of powerful angels or demons.
the ethical problem, is, that you seem to be saying that only demon lords matter! These Ancient Nephalim that created these items imbued with the essences of demons and angels, weren’t using Demon Lords, so their creations don’t really matter, and can’t be compared to Zolton Kulle, who only wanted to do the same thing.
DEMON LIVES MATTER.
Also, as I have also stated: You cannot confirm or affirm the extent of the system that the StarCraft Kid is working on. You cannot confirm or affirm that he is going to stop at a certain level, or, (and here we are at my question again.) that he is going to respect Zolton Kulle, and keep the powers granted by the affixes trivial and modest.
There certainly will NOT be any Hobgoblin affixes!
Item Affix: “Hobgoblin Aura: You prematurely age 10 years for every demonic item equipped. Develop a crooked back, emit a nauseating stench and develop a weird laugh.”
You do know that D4, the game that might bring those stats to the table, hapens way after D3 and Zoltan Kule, right? Which would mean that humans (not necessarily Nephalems, as there aren’t many of those anymore) haven’t been really “harnessing the power of demons and angels in various items for ages”. From what we know, they could very well have started doing it because a whole lot of lore we don’t know from D3 to the point were D4 goes on.
Yeah, I know all that. It’s just that your whole parade about how somehow those afixes break theme/lore requires you to be right about a whole lot of lore that still doesn’t exist to the public, so your whole point is really non-existant.
Another random accusation.
Those are questions! They are questions! which apparently you didn’t read, aren’t bothering to read, because you are too busy destroying that Strawman.
Lol what? I’m trying to remind you the order stuff happened, and somehow that paragraph is a “accusation”? What I’m “accusing” you off? Knowing the order events happened in the lore?
Here are some answers, I guess:
Full powered Nephalem is not something that common. We don’t know if we are playing as Nephalem in D4.
Again, full powered Nephalem is not something that common. It’s not a huge leap to think that Nephalems would imbue their gear with power from beings that originated them, or whatever source of power they could find really. As someone else said up there: humans are stronger than poison frogs, yet they still use their poison for arrows. And let’s not forget that we don’t know if we play as Nephalem in D4. And that Nephalem aren’t the only ones that could be crafting those items for that matter too.
It fits even less into the Starcraft universe than you think it does into the Diablo universe. ADA powers don’t even have anything to do with Starcraft, and yet you keep going on about “the Starcraft kid” rather than actually focusing on your point.
You also ignored my point about how something being described as “more powerful” doesn’t automatically lead to a place where it’s the only thing being used.
We also don’t know if the D4 characters are true nephalem. Diablo’s lore makes a distinction that nephalems are not just merely powerful humans.
What are you guys talking about??? 
Seriously though. What were you guys reading???
I, that is to say, for myself, I was talking about an affix system. And the thematic of that affix system. The system proposed by the StarCraft kid, has various affixes attached to items. The three affix categories are “Ancestral”, “Demonic” and “Angelic.” My point, which I am clearly focused on since I’ve been repeating it quite frequently, is that those three affixes don’t quite fit thematically into the current (you know what the word “current” means?) Diablo universe.
And the question is; Who crafted the items, when and why?
The question is NOT: Who is using the item? D4 nephalim. D3 Nephalim. Who cares??? the question is NOT: “Who is using them?” The question is: Who crafted them, when and why?
Based on the affixes themselves, Ancestral, Demonic, Angelic, it means that these items, weapons, armors, jewelry, etc. have been imbued with the essence of these several different types of beings.
the question is: Who Crafted these items, when and why?
The Crafter … (Not the user(s)) … the CRAFTER had to be sufficiently powerful enough to obtain and use the various essences. The CRAFTER had to be powerful enough to imbue the items with the powers, essence, aspects of those various types of beings.
The question is: Who crafted the items, when and why?
Now, based on the AFFIXES themselves with the focus on our question; “Who crafted the items, when and why?” we can make various conclusions about the crafter. (NOT THE USER… the crafter.) the Crafter … or CRAFTERS (plural) had to be a Nephalim of sufficient power to obtain the various essences, powers and aspects of the various beings and imbue them into various items.
Why must it have been a Nephalim? Why must the CRAFTER have been a Nephalim? Because one of the powers is a Nephalim power; i.e. ANCESTRAL power. The crafter or crafters of these items had to have access to ANCESTRAL power and therefore he (or they) must have been NEPHALIM.
But wait! Let’s not rush! Let’s consider the thematic possibility that the crafter or crafters were either Demons or Angels. This possibility must be ruled out completely. Why? for the very same reason that the crafter … or crafters … had to be Nephalim. Because the crafter has access to ANCESTRAL power. And if the Demons or Angels had access to ANCESTRAL power and could imbue their items, weapons, armor, etc with it then they would have wiped out the humans and nephalim and restored the Eternal Conflict to the status quo.
Remember. I am talking about the Affix system proposed by the StarCraft kid! I am talking about the Affixes on items. ITEMS!
And the question is: Who crafted these items, when and why?
Having concluded that only a Nephalim could have crafted such items, the question becomes “WHY?”
At this point, all sense is completely gone. It makes no sense for a more powerful being to begin using lesser powers. It simply makes no sense at all.
Why would someone with access to electricity use a creek or windmill for energy? Why would someone with access to more sophisticated instruments use less sophisticated instruments???
However, assuming that the items, with these affixes, exist in the game world, one of the immediate consequences is that Zolton Kulle’s radical, revolutionary idea to harness the power of demons and angels using an item, isn’t radical or revolutionary at all. And, these items, with the affixes, Angelic, Demonic, Ancestral, could NOT have been created after Zolton Kulle, again, because of the designation “ANCESTRAL.”
So, thematically, its all quite a bit of gibberish. And let’s not forget or overlook the fact that “All beneficial affixes are Angelic”, “All Negative affixes are Demonic” is infantile. It doesn’t get more infantile than that.
It’s quite hard to follow your rambling really. Now you’re just nitpicking things left and right to fit your narrative. But fear not, for I am patient. I’ll dive bit by bit in your nonsensical post.
So after a lot of rambling we defined that this was the problem. Ok.
Ok, that’s just absurdly obvious, but let’s keep this in mind.
Now here the flawed logic begins. The Crafter has no need to be “sufficiently powerful enough” to obtain various essences. The only thing he needs is skill and knowledge on how to apply those to his craft, whatever it may be. A swordsmith does not need to be a swordsman.
I guess this is as far as I need to go. Everything else that goes just jumps to the conclusion that only a Nephalem could have done it, because obviously only Nephalems could learn stuff.
This bit is quite interesting really. It has Nephalem power, therefore only a Nephalem could have done it. You have no idea on how the crafting or “imbuing” process happens, but of course only a Nephalem could have done it if it has anything to do with Nephalem power.
This pearl here is quite good also. Nowhere is said that “all beneficial affixes are angelic” or that “all negative affixes are demonic”. What we have is a generic increase to beneficial effects from Angelic power, and a generic buff to negative effects from Demonic Power. That’s quite a difference from “all beneficial affixes are angelic” and “all negative affixes are demonic”.
And this one is quite a infantile interpretation of how the word “ancestral” can be used. Ancestral = old, therefore it can’t be something new. It couldn’t, I don’t know, be someone using Ancestral knowledge to make something new.
It’s like… I can’t make Baroque music because we are on Modern times. I’m physicaly incapable of composing for a orquestra of strings in Baroque style because Bach is dead.
I’m not even going to bother reading your response. You starting typing a response seconds after I posted the above.
If that’s your idea of having a conversation. Keep it.
Wtf are you on dude? It’s been 12 minutes since you posted that. I just happened to be on my PC and decided to check the forum. Well, don’t care really. Your whole post makes absolutely no sense anyway.
I’ll still tear down your questions anyway. I honestly have fun taking them apart.
It doesnt have to mean that. It could be completely normal items crafted by the local blacksmith. But then some demon passes by, takes the item, and wears it. And the item gets corrupted by demonic essence ™, and thus it now has Demonic Power.
(Personally I dont care whether there is a lore reason or not though)
You still haven’t proven that nephalim powers are more powerful than demonic or angelic?
Uh. We are using windmills to create electricity right here and now.
So… Diablo borrows A LOT from Christian mythology so it wouldn’t exactly be shocking if they borrowed more here, would it? I mean our holy characters have crosses and the Triune seems to borrowing a bit from the very classical usage of the Trinity.
It wouldn’t shock me if they borrowed more from the Abrahamic religions, would it really surprise you?
Unless I missed some released images all we’ve seen from the bonuses so far are unlocking some bonuses to spells/actions and nothing game shattering (I think) yet. A lot of assuming this will act more like sets than, going to D2, elemental damage affixes is assuming stuff neither of us know yet.
In the lore it is HEAVILY implied that a fully aware Nephalem is stronger than all the Angels and Demons
Resistances being locked to those 3 powers would be quite game shattering.
True… I’m just doubting it is locked and that was just a bonus… you’re right though that if resistances are locked… and resistances in 4 matter like 3… it would be.
No it doesn’t.
An item can be enchanted with a certain kind of power without containing an essence of a being. That’s like saying a lightning sword has to contain the essence of a lightning elemental rather than just being enchanted with evocation magic.
Maybe the item wasn’t even crafted with the power and it simply just absorbed some power over time by being in the hands of an angel or demon for a long time.
So your argument that it makes no sense is based on a premise that is itself just speculation.
A blacksmith does not need to be a miner in order to be able to work with metal. They simply need the knowledge to be able to work with materials given to them.
Hell the entire crafting system of Diablo 3 is based on the idea that your crafters aren’t powerful enough to obtain the items used in crafting. They just have the knowledge to work with it and turn it into something.
It’s a really common thing in RPGs that the crafters aren’t the ones who are obtaining the materials.
In addition to my point above about the crafter not needing to be the one to obtain the components used in the crafting of the item, there is not a singular crafter in all of Sanctuary making all of these items.
It doesn’t have to be a Nephalem since it’s not inconceivable that the high heavens have smiths and they probably made powerful items enchanted with angelic power. The same smiths wouldn’t be the ones who made the items enchanted with demonic power or ancestral power.
Of course there probably were some Nephalem smiths as well since, you know, every society needs people who can build things.
The obvious answer that you seemed to have missed is “a lot of different people for a lot of different reasons”.
Why would someone with access to nuclear power use coal and oil and solar?
The ADA powers all seem to do different things. Even if nephelems are more powerful, it’s not out of the question that angelic or demonic may have a niche they’re really good at.
I just wanted to thank you guys for the sane responses. 
It’s perfectly understandable why so many people in this thread have been attempting to deny the fact that the Nephalim are considerably more powerful than the Angels and/or Demons. Simply, because it is the quickest way to deny the validity of the argument that the StarCraft kid’s idea turns the story into gibberish (or more gibberish). So, they deny that the Nephalim are more powerful despite the fact that this is the driving theme of D3 and attending fiction and that it is heavily stressed in a number of places. they’ve been attempting to move the goal-posts anyway and everywhere they can. Talking about parts of the story that haven’t even been presented yet, talking about the users of the weapons, denying that the Nephalim are more powerful, etc. etc.
This idea is a good one. And there’s certainly no reason this couldn’t be the explanation for it. And, we could probably think of a number of other reasons for how the items became imbued with the various essences. However, as your choice of wording demonstrates, “corrupted”, it still wouldn’t address or solve the base problem; Why would someone with access to sophisticated instruments use less sophisticated, debased, negatively altered, corrupted instruments???
Hey! You get no argument from me! As a matter of fact, my argument is that God … the Christian God … is nestled nice and comfortably in the text, waiting for the moment to reveal himself. I only point out that this or that idea would make the story Christian because they claim its NOT supposed to be!
So, what if you are right? the StarCraft kid plays StarCraft 15minutes a week, but attends Church 6 days a week, and his idea reflects his faith and devotion? And the affixes on the weapons reflect the alignment of the character, or become binding or influencing on the character.
By linking the alignment to affixes it would alter and control the player’s fantasy of his character. In order to have this ability you’d have no choice but to be evil or to no choice but to recognize Jesus as your personal savior! For me personally, whether its Jesus or Satan, Angelic Good or Demonic Evil, a system like this would be intolerable.
They should rethink this idea.
- It demonstrates a childish imagination.
- It turns the story to gibberish. Doesn’t fit the current diablo thematic universe.
- It destroys the fantasy, it destroys player choice.
- It’s just another SET itemization.