Broken Promises Vs. Convention of Elements

General Discussion
1

-Convention of Elements is regarded as Best in Slot for most builds that do not require another ring power to work, but could be easily swapped for Broken Promises, so long as other affixes on gear are changed, and most importantly Critical Chance is removed

-Scroll Down for Calculation

/Assumptions

/Assume Damage per Second is more important than Damage per Hit (for speed running, damage per Hit is more important, for longer fights, damage per second is more important)

/Assume we are comparing the difference in damage when using either Broken Promises or Convention of Elements and as such, the minimum relevant variables are; Critical Chance, and Critical Damage, for each option, as well as Uptime of our buffs once procā€™d, for each option

/Assume all multipliers from gear are in effect for both scenarios

/Assume we are comparing one ring slot power, life-for-like, so do not consider options such as Focus & Restraint, or Endless Walk sets, as we could use these with either Broken Promises or Convention of Elements

/Assume 50% Critical Chance, and 500% Critical Damage

/Assume we can perfectly proc, and time, our Broken Promises proc

/Assume we can perfectly proc, and time, our Convention of Elements proc

6 Item Slots with Critical Chance (3[+1000]), (3[+650])

  • Change to Stats, Cooodown, Area Damage, Attack Speed, Flat +Damage, etc.

50% Critical Chance = *0.5
500% Critical Damage = *6

200% Convention of Elements Damage = *3
20% Convention of Elements Active= *0.2
25% Convention of Elements Active= *0.25
33% Convention of Elements Active= *0.33

80% Convention of Elements Inactive = *0.8
75% Convention of Elements Inactive = *0.75
67% Convention of Elements Inactive = *0.67

70% Broken Promises Active = *0.7
30% Broken Promises Inactive = *0.3

Broken Promises:
3sec Duration, 1.25sec cooldown
12/17(70%) Active, 5/17(30%) Inactive

6 x 0.7 = 4.8
1 x 0.3 = 0.3

= x 5.1 DMG
+6 Item Affixes

Convention of Elements: Monk;
5 Elements, 4sec rotation, 20sec cycle
1/5(20%) Active, 4/5(80%) Inactive

(0.5 x 6 = 3) x 0.8 = 2.4
(0.5 x 6 = 3) x 0.2 x 3 = 1.8

= x 4.2 DMG

Convention of Elements: Barbarian, Crusader, Demon Hunter, Witch Doctor, Wizard;
4 Elements, 4sec rotation, 16sec cycle
1/4(25%) Active, 3/4(75%) Inactive

(0.5 x 6 = 3) x 0.75 = 2.25
(0.5 x 6 = 3) x 0.25 x 3 = 2.25

= x 4.5 DMG

Convention of Elements: Necromancer;
3 Elements, 4sec rotation, 12sec cycle
1/3(33%) Active, 2/3(67%) Inactive

(0.5 x 6 = 3) x 0.67 = 2
(0.5 x 6 = 3) x 0.33 x 3 = 3

= x 5 DMG

BP on all classes = x5.1 multiplier
CoE on Monk = x4.2 multiplier
CoE on Necromancer = x5 multiplier
CoE for other classes = x4.5 multiplier

It looks like no matter which class you play, Broken Promises is giving you more Damage per Second, if you are maintaining fights for 12/16/20+ seconds (dependant on Class) and can consistently maintain the buff

In addition to the increase in damage, you also open up 6 affix slots, 3 slots with a higher value for some stats [+1000], 3 slots with a lower value for some stats [+650], which can be replaced with other stats as well

If you use Convention of Elements, you can get bigger numbers instantly, but if you use Broken Promises, you will get bigger numbers over time

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2

Broken Promises has the problem that you have inherent 5% CHC, and you canā€™t remove that (well, in Shard Season you actually can), and that messes up the uptime. You need to have 3 non-crit hits in a row to trigger the effect.

But per se, it is not a ā€œbadā€ ring.

With CoE you ā€œknow what you getā€, BP is still dependent on RnG.

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3

Donā€™t want to be that guy, but there are a lot of assumptions here.

And everyone knows what assumptions can do.

Too much RnG as MadTom said to make this a reliable source of damage.

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4

Hence the name of the ring: ā€œBroken Promisesā€

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5

I remember using BP for some monk build back in the day, think it was for exploding palm buildā€¦ many years ago.

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6

Lots of assumptions. I canā€™t go into detail since I am not in the mood to do so but BP is fine when you have no option to apply excessive crowd control. All the while CoE is leagues better if you can have access to crowd control to burst crowd down. Only Monks can not easily maintain it but some Monk legendaries arrive with innate skill bonuses on the item or can make use of SoJ instead with elemental damage bonuses. For the rest of the roster, it is tripple damage that spread evenly at 2-3 sequences of down time which is roughly 50% to 66% damage boost at 25% up time. Compared to that, BP has a down time of 30% and 70% up time but only doubles your damage compared to a standard build with standard crit rating.

Thereā€™s a huge caveat about BP is its up time since you have innate 5% CHC, but it can be bypassed when you have access to hitting thorns damage (hint: thorns never crit) or an unending supply of damage over time as they donā€™t crit when first tick damage does not. For that reason solely, I think Crusaders and Witch Doctors have luxury of unlocking the potential of this ring. Crusaders have quite a few abilities that hit flat thorns damage to trigger this and I can see similar deal applying for Witch Doctors as they have quite a few damage over time abilities. Any other class always can use Pain Enhancer to sustain BP or Shi Mizu to replace BP if they trust their endurance.
For example my latest Roland Shield Bash build was using BP as a makeshift damage pump to boost output and spare some more space for vitality. Also I know some variants of Barbarian double throw builds make use of this small ring.

7

Ummm thats a big nope!!!

You say to remove crit and take other valuable stats but those valuable stats are already being taken. Any stat that has value in a slot you want no matter what. The only exceptions are amulet and rings. You say 6 slots but it is really 3 slots. Helm and bracers
literally have no other damage options and gloves you already take 4 damage stats if you roll quads so thatā€™s out too. At best you can do your math for 4 items if you have horrible gloves.

8

I listed 5 offensive primary stats which all provide extra damage, considering you can only have 4 primary stats on an item, youā€™ve got options to choose from

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9

Sorry to ā€œdestroyā€ the Thorns theory - Thorns crit only with the right shard in the shard season.

Anything else, Shi-Mizu, Broken Promises, Envious Blade donā€™t give 100% crit to Thorns.

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10

Unless you have Duriel shard in Lords of Hell Season theme thorns damage do not crit. However in normal circumstances, the skills that hit thorns damage (ie. Crusader) is a perfectly valid way to trigger BP.

11

5% Critical Strike is negligible depending on which build you use, for example, as was mentioned, Uliana Exploding Palm has no problem with almost 100% uptime, as do many other builds.

If you have a slow hitting single target build the 0.95āµ = 0.77% chance to proc 5 non-crits in a row is, for arguments sake, accurate. That same calculation will not apply to another build who hits faster and has AoE, which allows BP more consistent procs

Imagine you can hit 5+ mobs at a time. So 77% chance to proc BP each hit, after 2 hits its 94% proc chance, after 3 hits its 98% proc chanceā€¦ Seven Sided Strike hits 14xā€¦ No problems proccing BP on AoE builds with fast hitsā€¦

Some builds like Jade Harvester with Haunt also massively benefit from BP due to how itā€™s damage is calculated

I clearly listed my assumptions and calculations, so that mistakes can be identified. For example, if I didnā€™t assume a perfect uptime for BOTH CoE and BP, it would be impossible to do a calculation for average DPS. This is because I would decide the uptime, so I could say BP lasts 3sec, ICD of 0.25, but you only activate it every 4sec, so thereā€™s 0.75sec of downtime, which is 25% of the 3 we started with. But I made that 0.75sec up, so if I wanted I could keep changing that 0.75sec number until it was better/or worse than CoE and give you useless informationā€¦

So I have to make assumptions to provide a fair comparison because I know some people are not getting 100% of their CoE uptime, likewise not everyone is getting 100% uptime on their BP either, so to balance things out we make an assumption (also called a convention in math and science, assumptions are necessary for any accurate comprehension or productive discussion),

Thanks for the input though everyone wasnā€™t expecting this to be such a hot debate lol

12

As far as I know inner cooldown of 0.25 second prevents that from happening. Otherwise that Sanguinary bracers would be a very sweet deal to trigger it in an instant when you have five targets surrounding you.
With 0.25 sec ICD, and requirement of scoring 5 non-crit hits, BP has 1 to 1.25 second down time at minimum inbetween 3 second up time. You can read about the ring at maxroll. They suggest to use it with Pain Enhancer but any damage over time effect really works, such as Locust Swarm, Efficacious Toxin gem, Exploding Palm- Essence Burn, Rend and so on. Some Crusader abilities also hit thorns which never crits and tailored just for this ring; Consecration- Bed of Nails, Steed Charge- Spiked Barding, Bombardment- Spiked Barrels also trigger BP.

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Ahh thatā€™s the first time Iā€™ve seen someone suggest the ICD is per non critical, up to 5, I was under the assumption the ICD was for the buff retriggering after 3 seconds.

Thanks for the clarification, that definitely changes the numbers for BP in an ideal situation

3sec Duration, 1.25sec cooldown
12/17(70%) Active, 5/17(30%) Inactive

60.7= 4.8
10.3 = 0.3

=5.1
+6 Item Affixes

Still not looking too bad, I can see why itā€™s recommended for Monk instead of CoE with the 5 elements to rotate through, but the margin is much smaller for Necromancer and other classes

I am currently playing Uliana because it was from haedrigs gift, I wanted to make something out of it, itā€™s fun, like flickerstrike from PoE if I use In Geom :smiley:

Thats why Iā€™m interested in the actual numbers, to find out what will give me the most damage >:)

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14

Yah you have listed stats that will have already been taken. You cant take attack speed twice or area damage 3 times on an item. Ill give you and example. Below will be a pair a gloves with perfect stats for a rend barb.

strength
Cooldown
Crit
Crit damage

What are you gonna do? Remember these gloves always roll crit and always roll strength. Rend uses Crit and crit damage as its multiplier and uses cooldown and area damage. Attack speed is usless in the build. There are no other options. The answer is roll str to AD.

15

Ring describes consecutive hits to be required.

CoE is still a beast on Monk because theyā€™re durable and their range of reach is pretty long. BP can only be valid for very specific builds of Exploding Palm. Itā€™s obvious that you can not use Impending Doom skillrune and has to use Essence Burn which effectively halves your effective damage. It will take time to figure if it is a viable path or not.

Or you can roll critical hit chance to AD.

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16

I misunderstood the ring description then, I really appreciate you clearing it up for me though, cheers again Naksiloth :smiley:

I made 3 variations for my Uliana EP; bounty/Enmity with boon of hoarder and gold bonuses etc., GR push, and GR speed,

Iā€™m interested for the GR speed variation because I want to farm as high GR as possible for most exp, while playing with flow of eternity and madstone for QoL and speed, both in cube with gungdo and Captain crimson equipped, fist of az and InGeom for speed, thats why CoE is not good for me because its not active on every pack, but BP will be

Using the EP rune for 15 spirit per enemy hit, so I can spam dashing strike and pop SSS on packs, zoom zoom really fast :>

Your suggestion to include gem of efficacious toxin seems like a perfect fit for me as itā€™s not a pushing build and the 10% damage reduction helps with not using the belt for 70% reduction, and making sure I get AT LEAST 1 thorns affix so I can proc that too, its good to know :slight_smile:

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17

So your going to sacrifice damage crit for AD? The crit would be more damage. Thatā€™s my point. Every single stat on this item you have to sacrifice damage for damage. In most cases it is a net loss. On items like helm and bracers you are sacrificing damage for a defensive stat.

18

I think itā€™s good if you assume Strength is a damage stat, and donā€™t roll it off, instead swap crit chance.

Likewise, assume vitality is strength, because whatever paragon you have in vitality, you can remove, and add to strength (if you have points in vitality to swap over)

Like you said before, some good gloves for Barb could have:
Strength, Crit Damage, Area Damage, CDR, if you donā€™t like one of those stats it can be swapped for vitality, then change paragon accordingly, etc.

19

when you pushing rank #1 you run zero points in vit and roll off strength.

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20

Lmao are you pushing rank #1?

Maybe Hardcore rank #1 probably has vit too tbhā€¦