Picture I’ve seen circulating discords. Not a bad option for set rework.
~https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/521084691705626665/675976378386087948/image0.png~
I have a few questions: Which experienced players are getting “good effects and clears” with Fear? What is this something “extra” it provides?
I’m not outright dismissing you, by the way. I even went on PTR and tested Terrify out in a GR 112, the same tier I cleared yesterday using Falter. Here’s the video with analysis about why Fear, and specifically Terrify, is very bad for this build.
I understand that Terrify may not be what you intend to use, but Fear is Fear, and procs from EF work the same as Terrify, albeit for a smaller duration.
I started recording a few minutes into the rift, and it wasn’t a terribly good rift anyway, but this first fight illustrates some important problems.
I engage the elite at 0.08. Right away, I hit TS, and the yellow books it. I have to chase him, and while I’m doing that, I’m missing Frenzy hits, and thus damage.
Right away, you can see a problem. The thing that gives me a damage bonus also obstructs my ability to deal damage. This is crucial. Keep it in mind going forward.
I chase him down, wail on him, and get lucky that he’s blocked when I next hit TS. The third TS, triggered at 0.25, sends him running, but for 4 seconds, and during that 4 seconds, I’m only able to land 4 Frenzy hits until he stops and ponders the meaning of life. Again, I’ve dropped damage to chase him down.
Let’s pause for a sec. Imagine playing Rend, but every time you hit a Shout, it would interrupt your bleed damage for several seconds, even if it is supposed to boost that bleed damage. You see the disconnect?
The next TS, triggered at 0.31, sends him running again. I have to use a Charge to keep up with him, and luckily, I have Merciless Assault, and there’s enough density to reset my charge. But what if I wanted to freeze him with Cold Rush?
Yes, that would work. But it would also override the Fear effect and cancel the damage bonus.
See the problem?
So I chase him down, drop more hits, poke him in the rear, and eventually kill him. Let’s skip ahead to 1.20 where the real fun begins.
Let’s play my favorite game: What the Hell Am I Hitting?
Watch this fight. Half the time, it’s impossible to locate the elite. What wins the day? Bloodshed and AD, which is bolstered by the Bastion’s chains and density–the very same density I’m also continually scattering. Hmm.
At 2.28, you can see a good use of Fear. I use it during a Fire Cycle to effectively detonate some trash density, and that is a legitimate strategy. It felt good to do this. It was a moment of fun in an otherwise frustrating rift test. Unfortunately, it’s not fun enough to make up for the other failings listed above.
At 3.00 you can see me fight a skeleton, probably one that left Rage’s game in raw terror. He likes to walk into corners, but I still have to chase him from time to time, and there are still plenty of Frenzy hits dropped.
Look at the fight at 4.30. Just look at this mess. Watch me chase him around, having a dang seizure. Is that fun? Do you think this is going to be applicable to top clears? Because I had to run all the way back to the start of the dang map just to wail on a frightened hell dog. This isn’t a Raekor build. I can’t speed back to where I need to be. I can’t spin through enemies. I’m a slow, lumbering woman who makes things scared and has to backtrack to stab them.
DO YOU THINK THIS IS FUN? ANSWER ME!
Let’s jump to the double elite fight at 5.15. This one goes pretty much like the others, except I die while IP is on cooldown. We all know the build needs more toughness, but for the record, in this test I was using Band of Might, Vet Warning, and Parthans (procced by FC).
Something to note at 6.22. I charge to chase down an elite spider. But if I opted for Cold Rush, I would be out of charges, and waiting for a refresh. And if at that moment I got a Frozen Pulse dropped on me with IP on cooldown, I might be in some trouble.
My point is that our choice of Charge runes is between better mobility (to track fleeing mobs) or locking Feared mobs in place, which overrides the Fear. Either way, we’re not getting the full benefit of the 2-piece bonus because we’re either overriding the Fear, or we’re dropping hits as they run the hell away.
Anyway, the rest of the video is more of the same. And I think this clip illustrates why Fear is not going to work in high GR pushes (much less speed-farming, which the build is already very bad at). It can definitely help with reducing incoming damage, and it can sometimes work in density to nuke mobs on your COE cycle, but vs elites–which the build seems intended to hunt–it’s counter-productive.
Can it be fixed?
Sure. Simply add this to either the 2- or 6-piece bonuses:
Feared elites and champions are frozen in place and take XXX additional damage.
That small change would insure that Terrify or some other Fear proc is used in every push.
Then what are you talking about? Fear procs from items like Echo Fury?
EF isn’t used for Fear. It’s used for the attack speed stacks and move speed. The Fear procs are moot because monsters accrue CC immunity fast from the stuns.
As you can see above, Fear makes it more difficult to keep up EF stacks because you’ll drop hits and have to chase mobs all over the place. And, as noted above, the Fear procs from EF aren’t increased from the H90 set bonuses, making them even more useless than Terrify!
I don’t have a firm conclusion on what is BIS bracer, but I doubt it’s Aughs because giving up a 3x multiplier (COE) has almost never been a viable strategy.
You say your testing shows it is the better option, but at what tiers? What main stat and Paragon? Do you have videos to share here? If so, please post them! The more info and variations we can show the developers, the more complete a picture they’ll have when making set adjustments.
Also, have you combed through Rage’s and Justin’s findings about Bastion’s chains and how damage (and Stricken stacks) is parceled out in density? Having COE in the mix is kind of a big deal.
By the way, just to clarify: A lot of the above is written very tongue-in-cheek. I’m frustrated at the Fear mechanic itself and making light of it, and not directing any ire in your direction.
4 Likes
Free, you can check out my video I’m basically using the setup Kiwen described. It’s hardcore, but I’ve gotten better results with this setup. For me the setup with endless walk has the damage but I proc way to often while pushing 120. There is no way I can use EW and CoE in HC…not happening.
2 Likes
That makes sense. I’m not talking about HC, though, because HC will always have to sacrifice DPS for mitigation. I don’t think he’s talking about HC either; there’s not a single HC toon on his profile.
Nailed my PTR goal.
GR cleared - 120 (12:21,666)
Paragon - 1919
Mainstat - 16467
CDR - 46%
LoH - 53536
Physical - 38%
Frenzy - 30%
Gear - Oathkeeper/EF, H90x6, Pledge+Rose, CoE
Cube - BR, DD, BoM
Trapped 126, Stricken 125, Simplicity 116
Skills - Vanguard, Merc-assault, BR-BS, Insanity, VW, Demoralize
Passives - Rampage, Ruthless, Superstition, Boon
Strengths - good damage to elites+thrash with high attack speed, good sustain with LoH
Weaknesses - random deaths when multiple attacks get through dodge from Vet Warning, can die when CC’d. Knockbacks are very deadly
Critical problems - none
Additional info -
120 is fishing for me. Need good map and mob type.
The H90 set looks great!
I play non-season, on live my top clear is GR 125 with WW-Rend. My live gear level is comparable to current ptr. On live I have more augments thus slightly more mainstat, and on ptr I have Primal weapons and belt.
So my initial estimation is correct. To tie with WW-Rend, H90 Set needs a buff to damage and defense equal to +5 GR’s
For the most part you are correct that some dps is given up in HC, but some of the top pushers, if the toughness is there, run the same setup as SC. Regardless, the video is worth a watch, I have no issues with the Fear mechanic.
1 Like
Watching it now! Thanks for posting!
Aughs definitely adds some major toughness to the build, but I don’t losing 100% damage from Endless will be optimal for Normal. Also, for mitigation, have you considered IP over Wrath? Way more uptime on IP for the same DR value.
I would agree that you don’t have an “issue” with the Fear mechanic, but you’re not getting much out of it either. And that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? We have a set bonus that sort of helps you out, maybe, depending on . . . stuff?
Not okay in my book.
EDIT:
Sorry, meant to quote Aleas here!
As for damage, I think it’s going to need more than +5 GRs. I could fish 126-127 in non-Season with 17k main stat on Rend (using it as a basis for comparison since you used it in your post), and it may need more if we want it to work as an RGK in groups.
Oh I agree. as many of us have pointed out, if the fear mechanic is to be a shining aspect of the build it need to be way more powerful.
I actually enjoyed the game play with terrify, it was interesting, but to make the elite isolation pay off you need to be able to smoke the elites much faster than current iteration.
2 Likes
Oh big time. The suggestion I made above would fix the Fear issue, and there are many other ways to approach the issue.
I mean, we keep saying things like, “Of course we won’t use Terrify…”
But it seems obvious to me that was the intent, right? A set based on shouts and fear? Terrify is the obvious, though not sole, choice, you know? And I think it’s important that we take that into consideration, particularly for players who don’t read these forums and don’t think outside the box (which, in most cases, D3 doesn’t reward anyway).
Also, in your video, you’re using Unity, and I think that’s doing far more for you than Aughs. Have you tried the same tier without Aughs and just Unity?
And yeah, a Flavor of Time will be GG.
Seriously? 
1 Like
GR(s) Cleared: 114 (13:15)
Main Stat: 14,070
Paragon: 1169
Basic Build Info: (items + skills)
Sets: H90 6 Piece / Endless Walk
Weapons: Oathkeeper / Echoing Fury
Accessories: Undisputed Champion / Nemesis Bracers / Band of Might
Cube: Bastion’s Revered / Depth Diggers / Unity
Trapped(100) / Stricken(31) / Simplicity(99) / Amethyst x1 / Diamond x5
Frenzy (Vanguard)
Battle Rage (Bloodshed) / Threatening Shout (Falter) / Warcry (Veteran’s Warning)
Furious Charge (Dreadnought) / Leap (Iron Impact)
Rampage / Berserker Rage / Nerves of Steel / Juggernaut
Additional Impressions or Notes:
Here’s a video of a really bad rift for the build, I think. I can’t tell if trading out CoE was my issue or the champions/elites and layout itself. Unity made me damn near invincible though as long as I didn’t sleep on BoM procs. But I’ve also completely forgone CDR in favor of damage and durability rolls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz629onClAA
Fleeing enemies are the worst. The Champion Lacuni Slashers right at the beginning are a wonderful example.
Gonna try to get some ancient Aughilds crafted and try that variant out.
100% agree. That has to be what the devs envisioned and that would be a unique and interesting playstyle.
Yep, the dps is fine and I can complete it using unity in the cube and the EW set, but I’m having to avoid more damage and take too much in some cases. So while I have more DPS…I can’t take full advantage of it. But yes I can clear it with EW and just unity.
Again, the Fear mechanic seems to be getting ignored by most people.
Kind of like the Rend part of the WW set before last seasons changes.
2 Likes
would be cool to implement something like a nuke, for example bash with blade of the warlord into the set (maybe optimal playstyle or just to nuke big white mob grps and frenzy should still work as the main dd)
for buffing the dmg of the set they also could simply buff depthdiggers with the positive sideeffect that other underperforming generator builds would get a needed buff too (even something like monk gen)
1 Like
replace fear with taunt. we are a melee class, not a ranged. we dont want mobs running away, we want them stacking up.
fear effects arent about damage, they are about defense. making a defensive skill into an offensive one that requires we chase down mobs with an attack that causes us to stand still is silly.
also having your melee survival tied to a stack is not the way to do it. this works for ranged classes since they can get stacks without getting one shot. I would tie the survival to something else, or make it also double the duration that frenzy charges last, or always keep up 5 frenzy charges, etc. something that doesnt force one shot chances.
3 Likes
Since the set is called Horde of the Ninety Savages:
- 2-Piece Bonus: Double the effectiveness of all Shouts. Feared Enemies take double damage.
- 4-Piece Bonus: Each stack of Frenzy reduces damage taken by 5%.
- 6-Piece Bonus: Frenzy deals 1000% increased damage per stack. Every time you fear an enemy, you spawn one of the Ninety Savages, who will chase down the feared enemy until they die, doing XXXX% damage each second.
1 Like
117 clear-12+min.
Leg gems are only 100 or so.
I do have 5.1 freeze on belt too.
Auglids seems to help, but no matter what, the set needs way more damage and mitigation to push it up into the 130’s for 5K paragon players.
2 Likes
20k main stat carrying you there.
Just cleared a 113, 11k main stat:
Using Parthans and IP instead of Wrath and Morticks.
Absolutely. And more on top if it’s going to be of any use to group players or the most casual of players.
3 Likes
I noticed that you have Frenzy on left click. Is that by habbit or because it responds better?
There is a way to do that now, but a problem with it will still hold.
https://youtu.be/GWPpT9VZVGw
The problem is lack of supporting legendaries. You only have BotW. And yes, I know about the ones affecting all Barb primaries, but give me a moment here. You have both Undisputed Champion and Bastion increasing the damage of frenzy by a hefty amount. The unique skill changers on each make frenzy even stronger and the set boosting it even more.
To make a true bash/frenzy or all primary set, you need need to have the set affect everything as well as give all other primaries something to make up for the lack of true skill boosters.
I would be surprised if that happens at this point. It is pretty hefty amount of changing to do.