IM trying the archon VYR builds for the first time, and i have noticed that the archon abilities does no damage in comparison with the chantodo explosions.
I was hoping to use more the archon abilities, but im forced to go in and just let the explosions kill everything.
I find this particularly no fun because the discrepancy in damage between the chantodo explosions and the Archon abilities is too big, to the point that you rely on 90% on you archon explosions maybe more.
Yes sadly, your archon abilities are primarily used to get you as many archon stacks as you can (in other words to further strengthen Chantodo’s waves of destructions). Your damage will mostly come from Chantodo. I’m personally hoping that will change with the next update so that our archon abilities can actually start packing a punch.
It used to be more of a 50/50 split. Archon abilities did about half your damage, and Chantodo’s did the other half.
Then they buffed the snot out of Chantodo’s, and now the actual Archon abilities do very little in comparison. Now, they are mostly just a vehicle for getting stacks and aggroing packs.
Uhhh… no. About 0.2 GRs. Doubling something that only contributes 3% of your total damage means you hardly deal any more total damage.
Right now, at 20 Chantodo’s stacks and 5 APS, Chantodo’s Wave does 4000*20*4/7*5 = 228571% WD/sec.
Archon abilities do 790*1.5*5 + 604*1.5*1.5 = 7284% WD/sec.
So that’s 228571 + 7284 = 235855% WD/sec (plus other multipliers, but those are constants). The Archon abilities are about 3% of the total DPS. AD affects the Archon abilities but not the Chantodo’s Wave, so the proportion of damage dealt by the Archon abilities is higher in good density. But regardless, it’s not very much at all.
If you double Archon ability damage, instead of 235855% WD/sec, we’d deal 228571 + 7284*2 =243139% WD/sec.
That’s a 243139/235855 3% relative DPS increase from doubling the base damage of Archon abilities. That’s nothing. A 0.2 GR increase.
I had suggested something of the sort (been suggesting it for months actually).
Vyr’s 6 piece bonus:
Gain one Archon stack per hit or per tick of damage of any Archon ability. Archon stacks also reduce damage taken by 0.15% each and their damage bonus increases to 100% per stack. Increase the damage of all Archon abilities by 25% per Archon Stack.
The idea is that on top of the generic damage boost that the vyr set 6 piece bonus offers, the 6 piece effect would also grant an additional damage boost that would be for the archon abilities only. The only problem I can see with doing that is that blizzard may want to nerf Chantodo before they buff the Archon skills (as I don’t know how powerful that would be), which is why I also suggested, if necessary, having Chantodo lower the damage of the Wizard’s attacks (except for Chantodo’s wave of Destruction).
Chantodo 2 piece bonus:
Every second while in Archon form you expel a Wave of Destruction, dealing 4000% weapon damage to enemies within 30 yards. This damage scales with attack speed.
Every time you hit with an attack while not in Archon form, 4000% weapon damage is added to the Wave of Destruction, stacking up to 20 times. For each stack, reduce all of your damage (except for Wave of Destruction) by 3.75% while in Archon form.
That would, if done properly, give Vyr Archon wizards at least two distinctive playstyle. It would also allow Chantodo to be a powerful alternate option, instead of a mandatory one for playing Vyr Archon.
Thanks for the maths, Yeh it seem that doubling the archon abs damage will do practically nothing. The multipliers need to go sky high for them to be worth.
Well it would have to be something on those lines, With Vyrs archon stacks augmenting the Archon abilities damage.
Im not so sure about the Chantodo Nerf because it seems counter intuitive that a weapon will nerf something instead of buffing it.
I undertstand your logic but i think the right direction would be to simply rework chantodo set again to do something else instead of that humoungous wave… or simply nerf the wave damage.
But i think the best would be to buff Archon abs with Vyrs stacks and rework chantodo to be something more general instead of that Archon focused thing
This seems much more reasonable. If Archon ability damage accounts for 3% of our damage, if you have ~200 stacks, that’s about 200 x 25 x .03 for 150% more damage? or about 150%?
That’ll be the only way we’ll actually see the Archon skills do damage themselves without nerfing Chantodo any more than it’s already been. If they do buff the Archon skills without touching Chantodo, then the buff won’t likely be very high. At this point a rework is unlikely, especially for Chantodo, and assuming we would get at least one for our class, it needs to be saved for the Firebird set as it needs it far more than Chantodo.
That said, I was never a fan of Chantodo Vyr Archon. When they first reworked it back in season 4, I wasn’t thrilled with it being Archon centric, although the silver lining back then was as TinneOnnMuin had said, Chantodo was about 50% of your overall damage back then, with your archon skills being the other 50%.
But when they buffed Chantodo to the enormous heights a few seasons back, and left it like that for over a season, you had folks get used to it, and many began to enjoy the playstyle of letting Chantodo kill everything. Nerfing or reworking Chantodo would essentially kill that playstyle that some folks have grown to enjoy and I’m honestly not for that (keep in mind, I actually dislike Chantodo making up +90% of the build’s damage).
Which is why I suggested having Chantodo weaken the Wizard’s damage (except for the waves of destruction) as it wouldn’t necessarily change the playstyle all that much from how it currently is. The Chantodo’s waves of destruction would still be dealing the majority of the damage while the Archon skills would still be used to gain stacks. With that done, we could then buff the Archon skills themselves, preferably via Vyr, to allow builds where the Archon skills are actually dealing noticeable damage.
It should definitely increase the Archon skills damage by a significant amount, especially if you also count the double stack provided by the swami.
Even after the nerf, it’s still their strongest build. But compared to the other classes… its weak. It really needs a bigger damage output on those Waves. After they nerfed the Starpact build… it got replaced with Witch Doctor Mundu and now… that new Necro build. Wizards even aren’t the best for support builds.
Perhaps, but first we need the archon skills themselves to actually deal noticable damage. Having chantodo lower the wizard’s overall damage except for the chantodo’s waves of destruction, then having Vyr directly boosting the archon abilities can achieve this. All in all, we need chantodo to be a viable choice for vyr archon, not a mandatory one.
I have no idea how you could reasonably do this. There is Deathwish waiting in the wings as a possible replacement, should it ever work with Archon. Maybe Tinne Onn Muin could predict what more we’d need if ES/Deathwish worked with Disintegration Wave.
At the same time, Etched Sigil wouldn't be casting Arcane Blast because Arcane Blast doesn't count as a spender? I dunno.
Well deathwish and mantle of channeling should boost Archon’s Disintegration Wave, no questions ask as it’s a channeling skill. Etched Sigil, along with Taeguk on the other hand, shouldn’t boost Disintegration Wave as none of the Archon skills are arcane spenders.
But then only arcane blast would receive a damage boost as etched sigil only boosts arcane spenders. Disintegration Wave doesn’t use arcane, so it wouldn’t be boosted.