All Class Sets Ranked by Real Clears

The problem is that we do not know the parameters that Blizzard takes into account for the balance of builds.

dmkt, you considered GR 137 for 5000 paragons but maybe Blizzard is taking:
137 for 4000 ?
140 for 5000 ?
135 for 5000 ?
etc…

They do not communicate and even less about it.

Hi Arno,

We’re not going to tell them how to balance their game. We’ve done that for years . There’s a backlog of change requests from each class… so long… that it does no good to rehash them.

The devs seem to implement ideas communicated from various places: D3 forum, reddit, youtube, twitch, etc.

We’re just pointing out where it’s not balanced by showing a chart or two.

While set leaderboards are helpful in benchmarking a major part of the game – ascertaining each set’s true strength is time consuming because the data is spread over different servers and paragon ranges, not to mention, certain set data is incomplete or inconsistent due to popularity or freshness.

Simply not true. See below:

When balancing, we need a point of reference to work around. The “ideal” class set performance for Diablo III is approximately Greater Rift 130, solo, and assumes the character has 5000 Paragon levels .

It dates from January 2020 and the current balance does not correspond to 130 / 5000. Either it has changed or they are doing it wrong.

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Ok I understand what you mean.

That blog post is, and always has been, a giant heap of nonsense. Everybody has ignored it since the moment it was released, including the Blizzard devs.

I mean, look at the chart dmkt is building (and I am adjusting). Adjusted for paragon and time, all but 6 builds can do at least 130 at 5k paragon, and most can go significantly higher. And most new/revamped builds that are created with each patch are decidedly on the “more powerful” end of the spectrum, even after they get nerfed a season or two later (Inna 144.3 post-nerf, Mundunugu 140.7, Firebird 138.3, etc).

And it’s not even that it’s just crept in that direction over time or anything like that. Before they released that blog they had just turned AoV into an insane powerhouse, which they only finally finished taking the hatchet to recently, like 4 nerfs later. And not too long after that blog, they released Mundunugu, originally an extremely powerful build (still quite strong) and Masquerade, which pre-nerf was possibly the only build stronger than pre-nerf Inna!

So yeah: that blog doesn’t mean squat now, and it never meant squat to begin with.

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FYI: I have a large set of rows that will be dumped into the next post tonight.

Combing through Asia is all that remains.

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Cool. Have you fed them through the adjuster? If not, no problem, I can do that tomorrow.

All I was saying is that the person’s claim that Blizzard has never communicated their balancing goals is patently false. And that’s correct. I think you’re arguing a different point in that Blizzard has struggled to meet those goals. Which is also correct. Don’t mistake the mistakes of an understaffed development team with design objectives set by someone higher up the chain. AoV was a cluster**** of poorly thought out nerfs. They’ve got better at nerfing builds.

Historically, they’ve released OP sets to give the kids something to play with but the nerfs have always come. GoD (who you forgot to mention?) is back towards the 130 mark. I’d place a small bet that Inna’s going to be nerfed further if it’s still overperforming. The Legacy of Raekor set, as far as I could tell from PTR results, is performing relatively well with respect to the 130 benchmark. Maybe some people are sore that it’s not as ridiculously OP as the Inna’s rework? (Though it would seem it was the legendary affixes on the boots and bracers that were the cause of most of the problems: see LoD WoL.)

I think some of the problems is the lack of data with which to balance with. As I’ve said multiple times, Season 26 will be a good way for Blizzard to acquire data that isn’t skewed by excessive non-seasonal paragon or an overpowered seasonal theme.

I know this would never happen, but it’d be great if Blizz could release a much larger data set of GR data to help facilitate a proper statistical analysis of the set performances rather than the small cherry-picked data set used here.

Good luck with your tables. Hopefully they will be of some use to someone!

I got the adjuster going – it’s working great.

New data to discuss. I did not allow 9k+ paragon clears. Two appreciative mentions include Dibba and TheRoninOne who frequently made strong clears within the 7-8k paragon range in set leaderboards that were not competitive. We’d still have many questions without their clears.

I’d like to turn this into a few different charts.

  1. Actual Clears Under 5kp
  2. Actual Clears no Higher Than 9kp
  3. Estimated Clears @ 5kp (based on the average high and low, rounded to nearest integer)

What are your thoughts?

CLASS SET SKILL CLEAR TIME PARAGON 5KP ADJ TIME ADJ EST 5KP CLEAR
Barbarian Raekor Ancient Spear * 142 13:45 3289 1.8 0.6 144.4
Barbarian MotE Earthquake 138 14:53 3673 1.3 0 139.3
Barbarian MotE Earthquake 140 12:53 8608 -2.6 1 138.4
Barbarian Wastes Rend 141 13:52 3769 1.2 0.5 142.7
Barbarian Wastes Rend 145 14:46 6428 -1.2 0.1 143.9
Barbarian Wastes Rend 146 13:57 8100 -2.3 0.5 144.2
Barbarian IK HotA (pre 2.7.2) 131 13:48 3338 1.7 0.5 133.2
Barbarian IK HotA 136 13:19 7947 -2.2 0.8 134.6
Barbarian IK HotA 141 14:00 8446 -2.5 0.4 138.9
Barbarian H90 Frenzy 136 13:50 4048 0.9 0.5 137.4
Barbarian H90 Frenzy 137 13:44 5917 -0.8 0.6 136.8
Barbarian LoN/LoD HotA * 144 14:24 4248 0.7 0.3 145
Barbarian LoN/LoD HotA 142 13:08 4801 0.2 0.8 143
Crusader Akkhan/Invoker Bombardment * 137 13:19 4000 1 0.8 138.8
Crusader Invoker Slash * 137 14:01 4304 0.7 0.4 138.1
Crusader Roland’s Sweep Attack 133 13:17 4048 0.9 0.8 134.7
Crusader Roland’s Sweep Attack 138 14:29 8434 -2.5 0.2 135.7
Crusader Seeker of the Light Blessed Hammer 131 14:50 4042 0.9 0.1 132
Crusader Seeker of the Light Blessed Hammer 137 14:14 8363 -2.5 0.3 134.8
Crusader Aegis of Valor Heaven’s Fury * 135 13:02 4000 1 0.9 136.9
Crusader Aegis of Valor Heaven’s Fury 138 13:23 6195 -1 0.7 137.7
Crusader LoN/LoD Bombardment 140 14:48 2974 2.2 0.1 142.3
Crusader LoN/LoD Bombardment 144 13:42 5922 -0.8 0.6 143.8
Crusader LoN/LoD Bombardment 146 13:54 8421 -2.5 0.5 144
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Cluster Arrow 143 13:56 3810 1.2 0.5 144.7
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Cluster Arrow 145 14:25 6191 -1 0.3 144.3
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Cluster Arrow 149 14:10 8378 -2.5 0.4 146.9
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Multishot * 139 14:04 2155 3.3 0.4 142.7
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Multishot 148 14:52 8003 -2.3 0.1 145.8
Demon Hunter Shadow Impale 133 14:17 4261 0.7 0.3 134
Demon Hunter Shadow Impale 136 14:30 5392 -0.3 0.2 135.9
Demon Hunter Shadow Impale 138 12:36 7162 -1.7 1.1 137.4
Demon Hunter Shadow Impale 139 13:19 7994 -2.3 0.8 137.5
Demon Hunter UE Multishot 131 13:18 4575 0.4 0.8 132.2
Demon Hunter UE Multishot 134 12:13 5709 -0.6 1.3 134.7
Demon Hunter UE Multishot 134 12:38 7992 -2.3 1.1 132.8
Demon Hunter UE Hungering Arrow 128 13:16 4569 0.4 0.8 129.2
Demon Hunter UE Hungering Arrow 129 13:41 6015 -0.9 0.6 128.7
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Rapid Fire 126 12:03 4776 0.2 1.4 127.6
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Rapid Fire 131 14:54 5690 -0.6 0 130.4
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Rapid Fire 136 12:03 8276 -2.4 1.4 135
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Hungering Arrow 134 14:23 3262 1.8 0.3 136.1
Demon Hunter GoD Hungering Arrow 137 14:07 3114 2 0.4 139.4
Demon Hunter GoD Hungering Arrow 142 13:35 8258 -2.4 0.6 140.2
Demon Hunter LoN/LoD Rapid Fire 132 14:53 4621 0.4 0 132.4
Monk Raiment Crippling Wave 126 13:41 4335 0.6 0.6 127.2
Monk Raiment Crippling Wave 138 13:46 8215 -2.4 0.5 136.1
Monk Monkey King Tempest Rush 140 11:34 4320 0.7 1.7 142.4
Monk Monkey King Tempest Rush 144 13:08 8331 -2.5 0.8 142.3
Monk Uliana’s Exploding Palm 133 13:54 3373 1.7 0.5 135.2
Monk Uliana’s Exploding Palm 140 11:49 8379 -2.5 1.5 139
Monk Inna’s Mystic Ally * 142 12:58 3657 1.4 0.9 144.3
Monk PoJ Tempest Rush 137 14:22 2853 2.3 0.3 139.6
Monk PoJ Tempest Rush 144 13:51 8330 -2.5 0.5 142
Monk LoN/LoD Wave of Light 140 14:30 2950 2.2 0.2 142.4
Monk LoN/LoD Wave of Light 150 14:48 8433 -2.5 0.1 147.6
Necromancer Rathma Army of the Dead 138 12:32 4060 0.9 1.1 140
Necromancer Rathma Army of the Dead 148 13:46 8385 -2.5 0.5 146
Necromancer Trag’Oul’s Corpse Explosion 123 13:36 3602 1.4 0.6 125
Necromancer Trag’Oul’s Corpse Explosion 126 10:49 5148 -0.1 2.1 128
Necromancer Trag’Oul’s Corpse Explosion 140 13:21 8334 -2.5 0.7 138.2
Necromancer Inarius Corpse Explosion 125 14:23 2812 2.4 0.3 127.7
Necromancer Inarius Corpse Explosion 132 12:11 7880 -2.2 1.3 131.1
Necromancer Inarius Corpse Explosion 142 14:18 8333 -2.5 0.3 139.8
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Lance 125 14:01 3187 1.9 0.4 127.3
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Lance 137 14:57 8815 -2.8 0 134.2
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Explosion 128 13:14 5147 -0.1 0.8 128.7
Necromancer MotBC Bone Spear 133 13:50 4769 0.2 0.5 133.7
Necromancer MotBC Bone Spear 138 14:27 5289 -0.3 0.2 137.9
Necromancer LoN/LoD Corpse Explosion * 138 10:47 2495 2.8 2.1 142.9
Necromancer LoN/LoD Corpse Explosion 142 13:45 6339 -1.1 0.6 141.5
Necromancer LoN/LoD Corpse Explosion 150 14:09 8244 -2.4 0.4 148
Witch Doctor Arachyr’s Corpse Spiders * 143 14:32 2862 2.3 0.2 145.5
Witch Doctor Jade Harvester Locust Swarm 130 14:47 3345 1.7 0.1 131.8
Witch Doctor Jade Harvester Locust Swarm 137 13:48 8311 -2.5 0.5 135
Witch Doctor Helltooth Zombie Charger 133 14:32 3393 1.7 0.2 134.9
Witch Doctor Helltooth Zombie Charger 140 14:23 8285 -2.5 0.3 137.8
Witch Doctor Zunimassa’s Poison Dart 137 11:06 3464 1.6 1.9 140.5
Witch Doctor Zunimassa’s Poison Dart 144 14:21 8379 -2.5 0.3 141.8
Witch Doctor Mundunugu Spirit Barage 139 14:55 3382 1.7 0 140.7
Witch Doctor Mundunugu Spirit Barage 143 11:27 8068 -2.3 1.7 142.4
Witch Doctor LoN/LoD Poison Dart * 130 14:14 2886 2.3 0.3 132.6
Witch Doctor LoN/LoD Poison Dart 131 13:23 4886 0.1 0.7 131.8
Witch Doctor LoN/LoD Poison Dart 143 13:22 8407 -2.5 0.7 141.2
Wizard Firebird’s Flame Blades 137 14:43 3800 1.2 0.1 138.3
Wizard Firebird’s Flame Blades 144 14:33 7870 -2.2 0.2 142
Wizard Firebird’s Explosive Blast 143 14:22 7361 -1.9 0.3 141.4
Wizard Firebird’s Explosive Blast 141 12:33 7656 -2 1.1 140.1
Wizard Vyr’s Chantodo 138 14:58 4048 0.9 0 138.9
Wizard Vyr’s Chantodo 143 13:30 8339 -2.5 0.7 141.2
Wizard Delsere’s Energy Twister 135 14:27 3001 2.1 0.2 137.3
Wizard Delsere’s Energy Twister 136 12:58 7123 -1.7 0.9 135.2
Wizard Delsere’s Frozen Orb 132 13:31 3532 1.5 0.7 134.2
Wizard Delsere’s Frozen Orb 138 11:57 6232 -1 1.4 138.4
Wizard Delsere’s Frozen Orb 142 14:25 7322 -1.8 0.3 140.5
Wizard Tal Rasha’s Frozen Orb 131 13:29 4549 0.4 0.7 132.1
Wizard Tal Rasha’s Frozen Orb 140 14:50 8004 -2.3 0.1 137.8
Wizard Typhon’s Veil Hydra 138 13:05 3458 1.6 0.9 140.5
Wizard Typhon’s Veil Hydra 140 14:24 6386 -1.2 0.3 139.1
Wizard Typhon’s Veil Hydra 141 11:14 8274 -2.4 1.8 140.4
Wizard LoN/LoD Energy Twister * 137 12:52 3669 1.3 1 139.3
Wizard LoN/LoD Energy Twister 138 13:28 4900 0.1 0.7 138.8
Wizard LoN/LoD Energy Twister 142 14:25 5300 -0.3 0.3 142
Wizard LoN/LoD Energy Twister 150 14:19 7127 -1.7 0.3 148.6
  • Clear recorded during PTR.
2 Likes

Not commenting on whether this is indicative of balance or not, just wanted to stop by for a :clap: for this clear, whoever did it. LoD corpse explosion only other 150 clear?

Two best builds in the game? :smiley:

Hmm…

I’m fine with adding in an extra bracket for players with 5000-9000 paragon or something like that, but not super keen on excluding 9k+ paragon players. I mean, why?

Speaking for Barb alone, I can say it really deforms the picture, since there are cases where one could add a relatively small amount of paragon, the equivalent of less than 1 GR worth of damage, and see a considerably higher clear.

So, I guess I’d propose adding another tranche of data, for clears between 9001 and 20k paragon.

Also, I can see that some of these are still from the PTR, without needing to be from the PTR, for instance LoD HotA 144. I still think we should throw out any of these results that can be replaced from live, and put an asterisk on the rest.

I guess the real contenders, dark horse or otherwise, would be: Inna Monk, LoD WoL Monk, Marauder DH, Twister Wiz, LoD Corpse Explosion Necro, Arachyr WD, Bomb Crusader, Raekor Barb, Rend Barb, LoD HotA Barb.

And of those, the real serious contenders are probably Inna (unless it gets further nerfs), LoD WoL, Marauder DH, Twister Wiz, LoD CE Necro.

You can have my data for that.
Just give me a couple of decades to catch up on the paragon first, okay?

I just noticed that Maxroll added individual set leaderboards into their data. Handy!

|Monk|LoN/LoD|Wave of Light|150|14:48|8433|-2.5|0.1|147.6

(Ambadassador. Hardcore! Probably why you missed it.)

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I personally don’t want to show 9kp+ at all. Those 8kp clears are strong and hold up to most 10-12kp clears.

It was a legitimate clear. There were other very impressive PTR clears coming out of this patch, Raekor GR140 @ 1763, HotA GR141 @ 1911p, Marauder GR141 @ 2802p, Arachyr’s GR143 @ 2862p, Typhon’s Veil GR136 @ 2094 etc. We’re going to see a major shift in all scores once this patch goes live.

It does make HotA look like the strongest barb build in the game at 5kp, but I think not many pushed Wastes. Do you think this is not true?

Regarding using MaxRoll to collect data – we have to watch out for some of the data from Asia/CN regions. There were Ethereals mixed into some of the Era 15 non-season clears. Actually viewing the hero profile to confirm all is legit is an important QA step that cannot be done online. I had to undo entry of a row or two due to this.

I’m updating the list with the asterisks.

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But… I really don’t think that makes any sense. If the 8kp clears “hold up”, then what’s the reason for excluding the extra data of the 9k+ players? And if they don’t “hold up” (which I believe to be the case for many of these builds), then the whole picture will be seriously skewed unless we get the high paragon data in there.

Well sure, but what I’m saying is that the PTR was active for a pretty limited time, and people only played certain builds. It’s just not at all clear what the overall value of the GR changes in terms of “+X tiers” is, especially over a short time span. The data gets super “dirty” if there are a whole bunch of PTR clears mixed in with the live stuff.

Can we at least just include an extra non-PTR data point for every build where that’s possible? So, for instance, with LoD HotA, we could show the PTR 144 with an asterisk, and also the live 142 (and also, whatever we’ve got for 5000-9000 paragon and 9000+ !!)

LoD HotA, Rend, and Raekor Spear are all going to be competitive with each other. Frankly, I’d probably put my money on Raekor. I don’t think anybody has quite optimized the build yet. When they do, I think it’ll end up coming out ahead.

Good point.

ESTIMATED 5K PARAGON CLEAR | HIGH/LOW AVERAGED | BY CLASS

CLASS SET SKILL EST CLEAR @ 5KP
Barbarian Raekor Ancient Spear * 144
Barbarian MotE Earthquake 139
Barbarian Wastes Rend 143
Barbarian IK HotA (pre 2.7.2) 136
Barbarian H90 Frenzy 137
Barbarian LoN/LoD HotA * 144
Crusader Akkhan/Invoker Bombardment * 139
Crusader Invoker Slash * 138
Crusader Roland’s Sweep Attack 135
Crusader Seeker of the Light Blessed Hammer 133
Crusader Aegis of Valor Heaven’s Fury * 137
Crusader LoN/LoD Bombardment 143
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Cluster Arrow 146
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Multishot * 144
Demon Hunter Shadow Impale 136
Demon Hunter UE Multishot 133
Demon Hunter UE Hungering Arrow 129
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Rapid Fire 131
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Hungering Arrow 136
Demon Hunter GoD Hungering Arrow 140
Demon Hunter LoN/LoD Rapid Fire 132
Monk Raiment Crippling Wave 132
Monk Monkey King Tempest Rush 142
Monk Uliana’s Exploding Palm 137
Monk Inna’s Mystic Ally * 144
Monk PoJ Tempest Rush 141
Monk LoN/LoD Wave of Light 145
Necromancer Rathma Army of the Dead 143
Necromancer Trag’Oul’s Corpse Explosion 132
Necromancer Inarius Corpse Explosion 134
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Lance 131
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Explosion 129
Necromancer MotBC Bone Spear 136
Necromancer LoN/LoD Corpse Explosion * 145
Witch Doctor Arachyr’s Corpse Spiders * 146
Witch Doctor Jade Harvester Locust Swarm 133
Witch Doctor Helltooth Zombie Charger 136
Witch Doctor Zunimassa’s Poison Dart 141
Witch Doctor Mundunugu Spirit Barage 142
Witch Doctor LoN/LoD Poison Dart * 137
Wizard Firebird’s Flame Blades 140
Wizard Firebird’s Explosive Blast 141
Wizard Vyr’s Chantodo 140
Wizard Delsere’s Energy Twister 136
Wizard Delsere’s Frozen Orb 137
Wizard Tal Rasha’s Frozen Orb 135
Wizard Typhon’s Veil Hydra 140
Wizard LoN/LoD Energy Twister * 144

Now sorted, which should resemble a tier list.

Maybe I should clean out small stuff like Firebirds / Explosive Blasts vs Flame Blades… Just make it Firebirds.

ESTIMATED 5K PARAGON CLEAR | HIGH/LOW AVERAGED | SORTED

CLASS SET SKILL EST CLEAR @ 5KP
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Cluster Arrow 146
Witch Doctor Arachyr’s Corpse Spiders * 146
Necromancer LoN/LoD Corpse Explosion * 145
Monk LoN/LoD Wave of Light 145
Barbarian Raekor Ancient Spear * 144
Monk Inna’s Mystic Ally * 144
Demon Hunter Marauder’s Multishot * 144
Barbarian LoN/LoD HotA * 144
Wizard LoN/LoD Energy Twister * 144
Barbarian Wastes Rend 143
Crusader LoN/LoD Bombardment 143
Necromancer Rathma Army of the Dead 143
Monk Monkey King Tempest Rush 142
Witch Doctor Mundunugu Spirit Barage 142
Witch Doctor Zunimassa’s Poison Dart 141
Monk PoJ Tempest Rush 141
Wizard Firebird’s Explosive Blast 141
Wizard Typhon’s Veil Hydra 140
Wizard Firebird’s Flame Blades 140
Wizard Vyr’s Chantodo 140
Demon Hunter GoD Hungering Arrow 140
Barbarian MotE Earthquake 139
Crusader Akkhan/Invoker Bombardment * 139
Crusader Invoker Slash * 138
Wizard Delsere’s Frozen Orb 137
Crusader Aegis of Valor Heaven’s Fury * 137
Barbarian H90 Frenzy 137
Monk Uliana’s Exploding Palm 137
Witch Doctor LoN/LoD Poison Dart * 137
Witch Doctor Helltooth Zombie Charger 136
Wizard Delsere’s Energy Twister 136
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Hungering Arrow 136
Barbarian IK HotA (pre 2.7.2) 136
Necromancer MotBC Bone Spear 136
Demon Hunter Shadow Impale 136
Crusader Roland’s Sweep Attack 135
Wizard Tal Rasha’s Frozen Orb 135
Necromancer Inarius Corpse Explosion 134
Demon Hunter UE Multishot 133
Crusader Seeker of the Light Blessed Hammer 133
Witch Doctor Jade Harvester Locust Swarm 133
Demon Hunter LoN/LoD Rapid Fire 132
Monk Raiment Crippling Wave 132
Necromancer Trag’Oul’s Corpse Explosion 132
Demon Hunter Natalya’s Rapid Fire 131
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Lance 131
Demon Hunter UE Hungering Arrow 129
Necromancer Pestilence Corpse Explosion 129
3 Likes

You’ve still got the wrong one for LoD WoL.

Also, just for kicks, a quick list of current, not-about-to-be-nerfed builds that have cleared 150 sub-10k paragon (lowest paragon to clear 150 shown):

Twister Wizard (7127)
Arachyr WD (9649)
Corpse Explosion LoD Nec (9604)
LoD WoL Monk (8433)
Marauder DH (8586)

And, some that are about to be nerfed/have been nerfed:

Inna Monk (Fire) (5247)
Mundu WD (7901)
AoV Crusader (6968)
Bone Spear Necro (4564)
Firebird Wiz (6340)
GoD DH (6060)

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