AI in RPG's - why not use it?

So ive been thinking.

AI is already in our life and you are problably gonna lose your job to it in the future, so why not use it more in games.

I personally don’t like GR’s or maps in POE, iam more of a story driven player (old school ek sê). If you take the story of say Diablo II and mix it up big time.
Let AI decide whats going to happen next in your current play through.

Maybe Diablo turning into an angel and preaches to people, Cain become the ultimate baddie and messes up the complete world.

It must be possible in this day and age with programming to make the game actually playable forever without playing the same thing over and over again.

If you have say maybe 1000 quests with 500 NPC’s involved, the potential is huge that the first guy or the lady that sells you a potion at level one could the NPC the game revolves around.

The Zombie in act one or the Goatman in act II get a faction together and overthrow diablo or offer you trillions of gold if you kill all NPC’s.

Just imagine

Couple of things:

  1. The ancient engine here and likely in D4, can barely handle a screen full of mobs and effects… Good luck piling on AI calculations…and keeping the pace of the game.

  2. Much of what you are describing is AI verging on sentience…which is light years ahead of most current “AI”. Current AI is basically glorified data frakking and pattern analysis. The required amount of data and patterns to get to a place where a mob type would decide to act autonomously vs. other types is ridiculous and indeed…

imagination

True learning AI is both scary and fantastic. Siri was one of the more recent programs for it designed as an aide for battlefield commanders. DARPA (Defense Advance Research Project’s Agency) was the one who funded the research and project. The project was developed by SRI International. Once the defense project was done, the technology from the project was spun out of the not-for-profit company into a stand alone venture. Apple snapped it up, gutted it, and is still using it in some forms. Other AI assistants that learn your habits and likes have taken off since then. I think it is fascinating to have tech predicting your needs, providing information before you even ask, and anticipating your commands. I still won’t let one in my house though.

Next gen stuff is fantastically powerful and is being trained to play and win games like Go and Starcraft against humans. It learns as it goes.

Could they take some of that tech and build it into games? Sure. It is really fascinating to think what the next gen of games might be like based on at least parts of the learning AI tech out there. We have come a long way from choose your own adventure books!

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I think that just giving the monsters (in Diablo style games) some learning AI to increase the difficulty for a player would be awesome - no more just add hit and damage points to scale difficulties.

I was pretty impressed at the AI in the WOW/BFA island “PVP” style NPCs! I read an article that Blizzard was fairly proud of their behavior also.

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Well I hope for games it would least happen in my lifetime.

I actually would think we are already there. IBM build a computer in 1989 that won the world chess champion with a game that can have literary bilions of combinations.

But ye, IMO diablo would be the perfect game for it.

As for your home, well we will use AI and not even know it. It would be standard in all your appliances. Take care of that 1960 General Electric freezer :slight_smile:

And on second thought, it won’t happen cause theres no money in it. Why would a company make a game that last almost forever. Maybe MTX as in POE.

I literally do have all dumb appliances that have no connection to the internet or any “learning” functions. Everything requires me to actually walk to it and turn it on/off, or change settings. My fridge does not even have an external ice maker or digital display. My dishwasher just washes dishes! It still has a dial you turn to select settings. Stove is nice and basic. I would get gas if I could, but can’t. Thermostat is digital, but the sort that just lets you set timed on/off stuff. Not one you can access via internet and do fancy things with. And yes, my chest freezer is stupid basic!

I will continue to resist as long as I can :stuck_out_tongue: :camping::fire:

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As well you should, in my humble opinion. I’m a big fan of Sub-Zero kitchen appliances, and also of efficiency in engineering. I prefer to support engineering elitism rather than including ‘smart home’ ideas. A friend of mine purchased an investment property in a rather fancy place in this world and no one (when he tried to flip it) would buy the ‘smart controlled underfloor heating, smart lighting, voice activated this’ nonsense.

In short, I prefer a truly well designed and engineered house rather than ‘smart’ anything. Anyone here ever seen the hacking episode of Mr. Robot (of the audio system)?

On the subject: I think AI has a lot of potential in games like this. It could make the game a lot harder than, I think, the way we build our characters would be, especially if immunity was introduced. I think the broader implications for gaming are huge, and let’s hope that Blizzard will use increasing amounts of modern technology to turn its future games into things that people like me (old, who have been Blizzard fans since Warcraft 1) would like to see to develop deep immersion in games. And, no, I’m NOT talking about VR…:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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There are years until Choose Your Adventure type of thing to come to reality. Where fate is really whimsical is when Zoltun Kulle can ride angels like ponies under a rainbow. Only options given are rather limited and I doubt it’d go beyond that in an ARPG title.

Just use the bots that the players use to run the monsters instead.

Imagine a pack of 60 monsters, all controlled and interacting to attack the player. …

I don’t think you understand how neural networks work.

It has to be trained on a set of data.

obviously you want the AI to craft an interesting story using ‘puzzle pieces’ (NPC’s, Stories, Maps)

but a “good story” is very very subjective.

There isn’t a perfect ‘cookie resepie’ for crafting good stories out of modular bits for an AI to train on.

All that said there is probably a way to do this.

But it’s going to take some really, really ingenuous methods

AI is only as good as it’s creator. I don’t need my Diablo 3 future being shaped by a creation of Hamsters tyvm.

Have you not exprienced AI behaviour in big RPGs. It gets boring after 3 or 4 playthroughs.

Machine learning is several decades old now. None of what the media is writing about now is particularly new or exciting.

What is new is that in 2012 a student in University of Toronto made a Convolutional Neural Network (CNN) beat the state-of-the-art in ImageNet image classification by a very large margin over the state-of-the-art at the time. This caught the attention of computer vision and AI researchers and resulted in CNNs and Neural Network technology being rapidly further improved pushing the state-of-the-art in computer vision further. New architectures appeared, and more people also started to tinker with the internals to try to break them or understand how/why they work (we don’t know how or why they really work). But keep in mind that this technology is not new. Heck, Lecun made a CNN that can read hand-written zip code digits … in 1998! But the computation power and particularly accelerated computing with GPUs was not there yet.

It would absolutely not be appropriate to use deep neural networks in video games. Some of these deep CNNs need 6-12GB of video memory just to load into memory. That’s precious video memory gone for video games… Even worse is the computation overhead. All CUDA cores of your graphics card would be spent evaluating the model while you watch the game stutter at 1 FPS.

That said, online learning is a field of its own in machine learning. The idea is to create learning machines from a sequence of data that is sequentially fed to learning machine. As data is fed in, the learning machine is updating its model and adapting to the learning task. The data may even change in behavior altering previously established patterns and the online machine learning technique is expected to evolve to describe the new trends in data.

Online machine learning is not hype-worthy though. It may be 2-3 decades old now (maybe even older!) with several methods (very fast and more appropriate for Diablo 3 and similar!) and theory, but you won’t see it in the news. It may also have consequences of how players play the game. Imagine a player learning how to poison the AI. The player plays Diablo 3 using a set of strategies that are simplistic, effectively poisoning the hypothetical online learning AI in Diablo 3. Once the player reaches, say, a boss… the player’s strategy changes drastically allowing him/her to defeat the boss with almost no effort. At least, that’s one vulnerability I can think of.

What I would really like is to have AI controlled party members that can play okay-ish.

That way I could play in parties in games w/o having to deal with all the annoying things that comes with real ppl.
Like an offline MMO or something/middle ground for Solo players but I guess we are far from such.:thinking:

Yes I know that there are games that do this already but I meant something more advanced.